Hoe hotels de strijd om talent kunnen winnen

Cindy KasanmoeseniThey can go to the next door, to the next hotel, and they can earn more. And, of course, they get the same chances, and, of course, they can develop. And there is a career path, all of those things. I said, I think the only thing that distinguish us from other hotels is the fun factor.

the Future of HospitalityWelcome to the podcast, the future of hospitality, powered by guestjourney.ai, personalized videos at scale creating memorable experiences and increasing revenues. Today, our guest is Cindy Kasanmussini, head of human resources at Corandon Hotels and Resorts. Cindy, welcome to our show.

Cindy KasanmoeseniYeah. Nice to for the thank you so much for the invite. Nice for having me.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Okay. I'm glad I pronounced your name right because that was a challenge for me. Yeah. Alright. Before we dive into the questions or into the subjects, I would say, can you tell us, the the the listeners, our audience, a little bit about yourself and what you're doing?

Cindy KasanmoeseniWell, my name is Cindy. I'm Dutch, and I'm going I'm 47 years old. I just had my birthday. Happy birthday. Yeah. No. A few weeks ago, but I still have to get into the fact that I'm not 46 anymore. So working for about six years for Coranden Hotels and Resorts, it's my first real job within the hospitality. During my student years, I was also in hospitality just like many other students earning their wage to get to college and university. But my experience reaches more than twenty years in HR, so I have been in different industries and different companies. I worked for technical wholesaler for more than ten years.

Cindy KasanmoeseniI've been in the laboratory industry, production, retail and now in hospitality. And I have to say this is by far, yep, the best industry I've ever worked in because it's never a dull moment.

the Future of HospitalityI bet. Yeah. So what makes it human resources? That's that's that's a choice. Why did you make that decision to go for human resources?

Cindy KasanmoeseniYeah. It it kind of came by accident because when I finished high school, I didn't know what I wanted to do. So I thought, well, let's buy some time. So I first went to do retail and got my papers over there and because I thought, well, I'm opening up my own business. But then I started working in hospitality, and I thought, well, this is also fun. And I worked a year in the kitchen as a cook, which I thought was really fun, but I thought that I all also had to do something else that I had to go back to school. And I worked with a lot of students that were actually in school, so one advised me. He said, I see you doing human resources. And I was like, well, I don't know. So I went to check it out, and then I was like, this could really be my thing. I don't know why, but because it's like a cliche. I love working with people.

Cindy KasanmoeseniThe fact that I already had a diploma in my pocket, which gave me a head start in that in that in that course was more like, okay. Let's go for it. And I never regretted it. So this is where it all started. And also during my studies, I also did a traineeships, and and then I made sure that I had my side jobs also in that industry. So I did some do duo jobs with other students in HR department, but also making sure that your traineeship is well paid and doing some extra assignments. So, yeah, it's

the Future of Hospitalityit was always my thing to do, and I still love it every day. I can tell you radiate it. So tell me a bit about more about Corandon. Do I pronounce that right? Corandon? Corandon? Yeah. It's Corandon.

Cindy KasanmoeseniOh, yeah. Corandon is something special. That's what we always say. So it's it's a family business. It's it has kind of three parts. It's a it's a tour operator. It's an airline, and it has their own hotels. And we kind of our, our owner, is, is Turkish, and also his business partner is Turkish. So we have, like, a Turkish part of the company and a Dutch part of the company. I work for the Dutch part, which goes overseas also to the Dutch Caribbean. And, well, we kind of tick all the boxes in in hospitality we're we're very business, started somewhere in his own business. Shawarma place, And but then he wanted to go and have a daytime job because shawarma, you only eat at evening times.

Cindy KasanmoeseniAnd his sister met somebody in in Turkey, and she wanted to have, like, cheap tickets, so she start sell selling tickets via television to Turkey. Well and from one led to another, so they started selling package deals to Turkey, which was at the beginning of the year or no, the end of the 1990s, but it really became grand in 2000. And we are very entrepreneurial as an organization. If we see opportunity, we just well, we just grab it and try to get along with it. This is also what happened why we have an airline because nobody wants to buy an airline, I guess, because that's a lot of money. But when we were selling the package deals to Turkey, we became so successful that Tuohy didn't want other hotels or airlines to sell seats to us anymore because we were too much competition.

Cindy KasanmoeseniOh, wow. So we couldn't fly our our guests to Turkey anymore. So we decided, okay. What do we do? Are we going to stop because we can't sell the package deals anymore, or are we going to fly them ourselves? So we bought an airline. So we started our own airline.

the Future of HospitalityThat's the spirit.

Cindy KasanmoeseniYes. That's the entrepreneurial spirit. I know. That's what we do. And the same kind of happened with hotels because it's not that we had, like, in the in the past, the really the idea, okay. Let's start a hotel chain. You start with one, and then you think, okay. There's another opportunity. Let's do another one. And before you know it, you have, like, four or eight hotels. And, well, we're doing serious business in the in the hotel industry.

the Future of HospitalityIt takes some guts to do all that, and I'm glad to see it's so successful as well. And you are in the middle of it as a human resource manager, director. What was it exactly? Head of HR. I'm responsible for the Dutch hotels. For the Dutch hotels. Okay. So let me dive into the subjects that I want to touch with you. What is the biggest mistake that companies make when hiring talent in hospitality?

Cindy KasanmoeseniI think the the biggest mistake that you can make is that you still are too focused on the resume. It's kind of traditional, and you see some shifts that people are not using it really anymore. But using the resume or just looking at what's on it, what somebody has done, the age, you know, It's all those aspects that really don't count really anymore. I think it overlooks the cultural fit, the personality, the passion that somebody has for the industry. I think that these things are way more important when hiring staff than what the resume tells you because it's what's on the resume, it's all in the past. How do you do it?

Cindy KasanmoeseniWell, we're kind of on the verge of of switching that. To be quite honest, our corporate recruiters still does a lot by, of course, still scanning the the resumes, but it's more important what kind of personality somebody has. We also use, these, assessments in the process, which gives us more like that tells us more about what somebody can do in the future. If somebody is like a real leader or and we compare it in a benchmark. It's it's so this is something that we use, but still the personal touch and also just to see what somebody's up to. I mean, I think in the long run, we if somebody's really passionate and eager and motivated to come and work for you, it goes a lot longer than somebody else on the resume and tell that they can do anything. So I think that that this is still the biggest mistake that we can make. We have to look more at the person than that we do at what they did in the in the past. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that. I think you get a lot more when you look at the person, what their potential is that they bring. Yeah. And even age, for example, is still I hear around me that people say that they still are being discriminated because they're too old or something. And I was like, yeah. But if you wanna work, come with us. We have in our staff, for example and I think the youngest one is 16, but the oldest one is 76.

the Future of HospitalityAnd I love it.

Cindy KasanmoeseniYeah. Because if else he has to stay at home with his wife because they were both, like,

the Future of Hospitalityenjoying the pension, but he still enjoys working because he's say, yeah. I'm old, but I I'm not dead. You know. Yeah. And you be around people. No. I totally get it. I could not even I would not even imagine not being around people anymore. I mean, that is that is I can understand when you get older. It's frustrating to hear when you get discriminated because of your age, and you want to be out there. The older you get, you just want to be out there. I totally feel that. Yeah. Beautiful. I'm glad you're you do that. So how can hotels position themselves better as attractive employers?

Cindy KasanmoeseniIt's funny because I had this well, I I discussed this topic with with one of the hotel managers. I mean, I think it's all of the boxes that we need to take, of course, that we have to make sure that work life balance is okay, and we have to make sure that people can develop themselves. Of course, the salary has to be good, you know, all those things. But I think and and I said to the hotel manager, I said, if I look at the market and I look at other hotels also in in the surroundings of Amsterdam, which has a lot of hotels and everybody is kind of fighting for the same people, and, I mean, they can go to the next door, to the next hotel, and they can earn more. And, of course, they get the same chances, and, of course, they can develop.

Cindy KasanmoeseniAnd there is a career path, all of those things. I said, I think the only thing that distinguish us from other hotels is the fun factor. And it's The fun factor.

the Future of HospitalityYou got a fun factor. Okay. Yeah. And it has to be

Cindy Kasanmoesenia good story which you can tell at home because everybody is offering the same things. You know? And what distinguishes your culture and how much fun that you can have. Because if you ask anybody in any hotel and especially young people, I think if you ask them why do you wanna work here? All of these these things that I just mentioned will check the boxes, and, of course, they will but it has to be a cultural thing. We have to we have to match. We always say in Coranden Fund, you become part of our family. Mhmm. And, of course, we're your work family, so it's not like your real family, but we have, like, family values. If you are having a a difficult time, we take care of you.

Cindy KasanmoeseniAnd, of course, we also have, like, family parties. And also but, and, of course, you can develop with us. We have a career path. And if you have ambitions, we can make sure that you can you can reach them, but that does everybody else. So what makes us unique is our culture. And this is how we also put that into our employee branding, how we are as an employer, and these family values will translate to our our employee branding.

the Future of HospitalityI love it. I can feel, I can sense that's where your success, your used success is coming from. This is the personal touch from the inside out. That is where it's coming from. Everyone talks about guest experience. How important is it is the employee experience in your opinion?

Cindy KasanmoeseniYeah. It's essential, of course. I think it's it's so important. And this is all where it's think it's also the yeah. These are these quotes that if you make sure that your people are happy, they make sure that your guests are happy. You know? I think mister Branson said it once, but I think everybody quoted it over it was the other way around. But that's really important. So if you make sure that from the even before they start with you, your employees, even with the recruitment process, the whole journey within our company has to be good, that whole experience. And we start with the basics that we start within our company with getting them acquainted with our DNA, what we think is important because we defined our DNA from what we want as a guest experience. When our guests come in, what do they need to experience? And then we translate it to our employee experience, what they need for that.

Cindy KasanmoeseniAnd it's in the DNA, and we translate it also to our, how do you call it, our environment, what do we need to make sure that they feel safe, and also the coach and leadership that they need for that. So it really has to fit all that to make sure that the employee's experience is really good because I think there's two in that that, yeah, we always get around like happy wife, happy life, and it also applies, I think, to to your employees.

the Future of HospitalityI believe that too. Is it something because the founder is from Turkish origin, Turkish Dutch origin? Do I get that right? Well,

Cindy Kasanmoesenioriginally Turkish, but I think he came to The Netherlands when he was six. So he's he's really Dutch. Yeah. Right. I asked that because what I think I'm hearing is that

the Future of Hospitalitythe the founders were the founder brought in their Turkish heritage, their family values into the company. Is that correct, do you think? The family values? The Turkish from the Turkish culture.

Cindy KasanmoeseniYeah. I think there is a healthy adaption of that. I mean, Turkish people really value family life. This is also what you can see because I already said it's it's a family company. I mean, we have our CEO, but our managing director is his son. And he's the sister of the of our founder is also the CEO of the two operator in the airline. And they really try to bring everything together. So this is also why, yeah, we came up with We Are Family. Sometimes it's literal. Mostly, it's figuratively,

the Future of Hospitalitybut it's really important for us. Family is life. You know? Yeah. Yeah. No. I sense it. I get it. And I think that's indeed, like I said before, I think that is part of the success factor of of of Corandon. What do you think is the most overlooked factor in retaining top hospitality talent?

Cindy KasanmoeseniI think leadership. Sorry. Because I was thinking about about what I will answer to this question, and then, like, it's all coming down to one thing, and that is leadership. Because, and I looked it up because I wasn't in my mind, was that 30% of people, well, leave because of the manager, but apparently, these numbers are even higher. So if you wanna yeah. I was like, oh my god. It's really high. So it's somewhere between thirty and fifty, and it was more like people don't leave the company. People leave their manager or their boss or bosses, kind of. So if you have, like, good leadership within your organization, which makes people feel comfortable that they can make mistakes, that they can grow, that they are mentored, I think that's the biggest key to success by retaining your staff.

Cindy KasanmoeseniMhmm. Because this is so how do you call it? This weighs a lot. I mean, you can check I can give more salary if somebody's not happy with that, and that will last for a month. And you can give people, like, tips and tricks and tools and whatever they need to do their job, but it all comes down to one thing, and that's the manager or the leader. And if that's not good, yeah, then people will leave because then all the other things also fail. I mean, we want good feedback, and we want growth opportunities. So but that also has to be facilitated by the leader. And, I mean and that's also that something that we need to understand. There are managers and there are leaders, I always say. Mhmm. And leaders make sure that they facilitate their staff so that that they are given the feedback that they need, that they're given the trust, the safe space to make mistakes because this is where the growth is. And this is where if people feel safe that they wanna stay and develop further. And it all comes down to leaders. Leaders.

the Future of HospitalityRight. So the next one in that is happy employees create happy guests. That's the saying. Can you share a moment where this proved to be true?

Cindy KasanmoeseniYeah. Of course. I was because I was thinking, where do I see this? But I see it all the time because I hope I like to believe that we have a lot of happy employees. But, to have a concrete example is, for example, in one of our hotels, we have this guest relations desk in the lobby parts where there's always a guest relations officer or the guest relations manager behind the desk to answer questions, maybe handle a complaint. But what they do really well, and it's always in the little things, they're always smiling from ear to ear. They really love their job. You know? And when I just see them, they just start smiling and glowing all over, and it it's just contagious. You know? But even when it's very busy, and it can be very busy because it's a a hotel near the airport where people can really can't queue up.

Cindy KasanmoeseniNobody likes to be in line. Let's be honest. And what they do is they just stand up, come by with the trolley, with a little drink and a little cookie and everything just to make you comfortable in that line. So you see people coming tired from the buses with their suitcases in line, and then they stand there. And they're the and you see the tiredness. And then this beautiful lady with a beautiful comes and says, would you like to drink? And then

the Future of Hospitalityeverything flourishes, you know? And then it's like yeah. It it just robs up. The little things. But that's what it we are all people. We're all human. We all have feelings, and that's what we're all tired, and we just want that little thing to be recognized, to be seen. Be recognized. Yes. That's what I'm hearing. Yeah. Happy people. Attention,

Cindy Kasanmoeseniyou know, just being valued, just to everybody wants to feel welcomed, and that's what we try to do. So if you come in that you feel like we want you to be there, and then we make it as easy for you because you still have to be in line. We can't solve that for you. Just hopefully, our receptionist work a little bit harder, but they also wanna give the attention to the one who's at the desk. So we'll just take care of you when you're in line there. And then you see that when we are happy, that the guests are also happy. And it just I always say, just give it a smile. You know? The guests and sometimes because if the guest comes in, nobody wants, like, yeah, somebody who has a bad day. You know? That's not my concern.

Cindy KasanmoeseniIf we're in hospitality, and it's all about attention

the Future of Hospitalityand smiles. So Yep. And from my own point of view, because, yeah, I I fully agree and I'm so glad that that Corindon is doing this, they understand it. But from a traveler point of view, the first thing you do when you walk into a hotel is a need and when there is a line, you look to the to to the front desk and you look at the people and without wanting it, but you have an opinion about the person behind the desk if it's if she or he is not smiling, if he he or he has a bad day, and I don't wanna see that. And that that that sounds selfish, but as a guest, when you arrive, you want to have you want to see that smile. You want to be feel welcome, And that is exactly what yeah. Nice nice one. I like that. What is, in your opinion, the key to effective talent development in hotels?

Cindy KasanmoeseniFirst, recognizing your talents. So that means that you have to invest time in people to know who are your stars and who are your people who need more development or other attention. But it also starts, of course, with training, mentorship, all these things that make sure that the safe environment to make mistakes, like I just said. And one thing to add to that because I talk about this a lot with people in the business, but also with schools in the in the surroundings is, I think, also making it generation proof because, we can develop a lot. And, of course, we can do a lot of mentoring and coaching. But, what I noticed now is because we have, like, these five generations on the floor that everybody needs their own kind of approach with that.

Cindy KasanmoeseniSo I think if you wanna be effective in the long run, you have to also consider the one who's in front of you. Because like I just said, we have still some baby boomers on the floor. And not that they need like the real development, but if we teach them something new, which is still normal in our business, they need another approach than, like, the Gen z who wants to have, like, direct feedback when something is not done well. You know? So it kind of also we need to, I just call it generation pool, but we need to adapt also to the generations on the floor to make sure that the talent development is also effective.

the Future of HospitalityRight.

Cindy KasanmoeseniAlso interesting. Five generations, you said on the floor. Five generations, that's a lot. Yeah. Because the no. No. Not yet. But we, of course, have the baby boomers. We have, like, the Gen X. So we have the millennials and the Gen Zs. And Generation Alpha is also already visiting our hotels asking for little traineeships already.

the Future of HospitalitySo we have to be be also be prepared for what's coming to us. Yeah. Because this whole landscape is changing indeed. We we talked about that. It's the the the expectations and the approach. It's all changing. It's not the same as it was thirty, forty years ago. It's way different. No. No. It's definitely different. Yes. How do you see the future of human resources in hospitality evolving?

Cindy KasanmoeseniWell, I think what I see in my own department, in which I'm also working on with my own team, is that we have to well, we have to. We don't. But we are moving away from the traditional hiring and all the the administration, I always tell my team how can we make things easier and how can we make it better, digitalize it, you know, to become more efficient. But okay. That's like, I I assume that over everybody's dealing with that kind of thing. But I also for this year, I had, like, these, three focus points, which I also see as the key changes for the future.

Cindy KasanmoeseniAnd I think that these focus points are, of course, AI, how we can integrate that in good way into our department. So more tech driven, data driven, but also how can we let AI work for our department so that we can also make it in the long run-in hospitality because I think we are just scratching the surface with AI. And also within the hospitality, it's not like an already, say, the team that AI is frequently used already within everything that we do. I mean, we're not in finance or something. And there's also the other thing, sustainability. Of course, with the energy transition, sustainability transition that I think that we need to align that with what we're doing in the HR department. So I always say with every plan that we do, with every team that we have, if it's recruitment, onboarding, performance management, how can we make that more sustainable?

Cindy KasanmoeseniOn one side, how can we make it more green? But on the other side, how can we make it more sustainable to the future that we're not doing it for just one year, but that we can do it for five years. And there's also the well-being, the vitality of our staff. I mean, this is just a general focus point that I think as long as I'm in HR, that that's my main priority, the well-being of our team members.

the Future of HospitalityRight. And do you think you mentioned modern technology like AI. Do you think there we we're we're we're now balancing towards more tech probably on the back end, but and and you say you we want to embrace it, but it's just we're we're scratching the surface. And there is a new generation coming in that is probably working with AI all the time already. So how do you balance that? That was probably my last question about this subject. How do you balance that? But you were thinking about it, but how do you feel about that?

Cindy KasanmoeseniWell, I think that I would talk with my learning and development manager about this subject because I think that we need to, as a as a company, but also as an industry, have to stand up and really think about it how we're do it. Because if we're not gonna do it now, then we'll be at the end of the line just seeing how everybody else is dealing with it. So and I want to start I have we have this implementation plan, how we wanna do it. And it starts with getting people aware just by starting asking the question, what is AI? What can artificial intelligence really do for us by making some examples that people are going to think about their own job and how we can make it not even faster, but more smart.

Cindy KasanmoeseniAnd this is how we, like you already said, we need to embrace it because if we are going to wait, then we will be You'll be out. You have to. Left behind. So No. Honestly, yeah. Yeah. Believe that. I fully agree.

the Future of HospitalityLast thing. Do you have any advice for people who want to enter the hospitality industry?

Cindy KasanmoeseniDo it because this is like the best industry ever because if you ask people, what do you do in your free time? Everybody loves eating, loves to go to hotels, loves traveling, go to the movies, go to theater. That's all hospitality. And people need to understand it's not just a side job when you are studying. You can have your complete career here and be fully developed to whatever ambitions that you have. Dreams come true in hospitality.

the Future of HospitalityWonderful. Cindy, thank you so much. It was lovely talking to you. Thank you for sharing your insights and your energy and your enthusiasm. Yeah. You're radiating it. I love it. Thank you so much.

Cindy KasanmoeseniThank you for having me. It was a real pleasure.

the Future of HospitalityYou. Alright.