Waarom HR in de bestuurskamer thuishoort

Nicole BonIt's more important that it's not some wording on the wall or people just saying it. I think the culture is something that employees should feel. And I think that HR is playing a very important role in keeping that alive.

the Future of HospitalityWelcome to the first episode of Room for Talent. My name is Cindy Casamussi, head of HR at Corandon Hotels. Today marks an exciting milestone for me, and not only is this the first episode of Room for Talent, but it's also my debut as a podcast host, taking me proudly beyond my comfort zone. The advice that Alan Skuri, the wonderful person behind this podcast, gave me was to start this podcast series with somebody I know and I feel really comfortable with. So a few people came to mind, but one in particular. My guest is someone I not only deeply respect professionally, but someone who also played an important role in my own journey. It's Nicole Blom.

the Future of HospitalityWe worked together at Corandon Hotels, where she was my manager at the same at the time. Nicole is a true HR professional and has has a strong love for people, culture in the hospitality industry. And, therefore, I asked her to be my first guest in this podcast. Could you tell us, well, Nicole, first of all, welcome and wonderful to have you here and that you really want to be my first guest. So can you give us some more background about you and what you did today?

Nicole BonAbsolutely. But first of all, Cindy, thank you for the invitation and for your warm and kindly words. And it's also my first time. I had some speakers experience on Big Podia, but I never done a podcast. So we join our hand join our hands together and make it a wonderful post podcast together. So I think for everything, there's a first time. Yes. A little bit about me. I have my roots in the hospitality industry. I came from a family who had an own restaurant and bar, so I think that's where the love began. BT Hotel Management School in The Hague, and afterwards, I started my career in one of the hotels at Schiphol.

Nicole BonBut then I moved away from the hospitality industry. I worked in the casino business, but also in the pharmaceutical industry. But then again in 2,019, we've met, and that was the time I came back to the hospitality industry. And at the moment, I'm currently busy with my career progressing my career as an HR director, people culture within Crandon, but then for the tour operator and the airline. Yeah. So that's still happening. A nutshell. Yeah. Thank you.

the Future of HospitalityYeah.

Nicole BonOkay. But that's in a nutshell.

the Future of HospitalityOh, that's in a nutshell. Yeah. When you think about back to the the moment that you chose AR, what originally pulled you towards this field? Because you chose you did a hotel school and Yeah. Ended up in HR. So

Nicole BonYeah. I we did we got the opportunity within the hotel management school to also do a minor, and that I think I was in my third year, and we could do a minor in train the trainer, and that was actually the first time I really was exposed by coaching and helping other people. The minor was set up to help the first year students to work more together as a team, work as team building, but also coach them and help them to come through the the first year. But also to help them with big projects, and they need to deliver an entrepreneurial project and assignments. So we were there to help them and to coach them. And I think they're where the love begins for for HR. And I think that's what I'd like to do, helping people to develop and coach them, but also help them when they struggle with some issues.

Nicole BonNot only on a professional level, but also sometimes on a personal level.

the Future of HospitalityOkay. So that was kind of a long time ago.

Nicole BonA long time ago. You know? But if you

the Future of Hospitalityso that was all new to you, and that's where kind of the the love grew. But if you had to describe your current role to you, like, fifteen years ago, what you do now, what would have surprised you most about it?

Nicole BonI would never expect I would be back in the hospitality industry. But that's where I think the blood goes where it's at. So that that's really part of my DNA. So I I've moved away. I worked for start up companies. I worked for fintech companies. Nothing to do with hospitality at all. But actually, they're they persuades me to I think in 2019 to come back to the hospitality industry. And time, I worked for a fintech company. So really with IT guys, developers, front end developer, back end developers, and nothing to do to the hospitality industry at all. So they did quite a good job at the time to move back, and I've never felt to worry about it. No. No regrets.

the Future of HospitalityNo. Because you have seen a lot of different industries. And you're also back in the hospitality, like you say, blood runs deep, and I think when you get a bit bit it's contagious working, like, in the hospitality industry. But you've always been in HR, so what part of your work still gives you the same energy as it did like when you first started or like ten years ago?

Nicole BonYeah. I think it's maybe the level that I'm working at the moment. So I can really drive strategy and be important for people in their career, but also for the company itself. So really on the executive level, I can really, yeah, hopefully make a difference. And that's also what I like the most. If you just ask me to just run a HR department, that's not a challenge at all for me. So I always want to make a difference and always would like to improve. So if you can give me that, that gives me a lot of a lot of energy. And and you know, Cindy, I joined Random back at 2019.

Nicole BonWe all know what happened in March 2020, so it was not the most, easiest time at all. No. It's it's really the COVID time, but particularly during that time, we as HR could really make a difference for all those people. Of course, we had to let go a lot of people, but if we can do it in a respectful way, just helping them, guiding them, supporting them, I think that's HR we can yeah, that's a heavy task, but also a very grateful task to do that. Yeah.

the Future of HospitalityYeah, that was a really hectic and heavy time. I still remember that I was in the office crying about the IV that we had to let go of a lot of people, and then we just Yeah. Wiped our tears. And I was like, okay. Let's do this. We have to get to the crisis. But if you look back on on that period, what's what kind of lesson did you get out of it? What did you learn about yourself in that time?

Nicole BonI think the persuasion, I think, know that I can get through hard times, but it also affected us, I think, also, personally. I think everybody in COVID time also had their their personal issues with with children, with other challenges you're having, probably the concerns about your, parents. So it was already a challenging time in my personal life, and then it was really hectic on my professional life as well. And I if if I look back, I don't know how I just kept kept going. But I think the most important lesson I've learned, it was really what we did at time time at the team effort.

Nicole BonAnd I think that's the most beautiful thing within hospitality. What I felt comparing to other industries, the team spirit is so strong because you work it's and hotel is open twenty four seven. People also see each other, it's part of their personal life as well. And the way how it's in their DNA with people who love hospitality. They like to take care of people and the way how everybody was there for each other. It doesn't matter in what kind of department you worked. It wasn't a shared assignment that we did to do had to do. And we just had one common goal, just get through COVID times.

Nicole BonAnd hopefully, we were there supporting each other. I think that that gave me a lot of strength. Yeah.

the Future of HospitalityI shared that that thought. It was like really doing the team effort together and just trying to to remain sane in all the chaos, of course. Yeah. I really saw you as as a true leader, getting everybody together and just, yeah, doing the job, but also being there for for each other. If looking back on that, if you look at your younger self, what kind of leader would you thought you would become, or was that something that wasn't on your mind when you stepped into your career in the hotel school or later on?

Nicole BonTo be honest, never thought I would be a leader. I think that there was no ambition at all of me. I think at that time, if you look back, I was so shy and so modest. I I would hate it to put it to be put in the in the in the in the front and to expose to a lot of people and making decisions and leading people, but I think he slowly grown into that. And and it's not like you said, it was one of my ambitions to become a leader. I just love my job. And then you slowly developing in your career and yeah. And and look now and yeah. I made it as a director of HR.

Nicole BonBut actually, I love to be a leader and working together with a team and see what we're capable of. If we're all working together, have the same common goals and actually helping the organization developing and growing, but also the people within them. Yeah.

the Future of HospitalityI can imagine that that COVID, like, was, like, one of those defining moments that really shaped you as a leader. Are there other moments in your career when you look back on it that kind of defined that leadership within you?

Nicole BonYeah. Of course. I think everybody has some met some heroes within within their careers. And if I look back, I think it was 2016 when I worked with a startup company, but unfortunately, we had to close that business. And the owner of the company already stepped back a few months ago, and then an interim managing director came in. Actually, the director was the COO of the group, and that was such a great leader in all kind of aspects. He give guidance, he give priority, he brought a lot of peace, and he was really a true people manager. So we learned a lot from from him and especially myself.

Nicole BonAnd the way he was, I think at that time he did three jobs, but every time I sat down with him and talking about the priorities, he really gave me the feeling that he had all the time in the world. He was there only for me, was there to coach me, to guide me, and to make sure I could deliver and and was helping me just to do my job. And I think that's a real talent if you give somebody the feeling that he's totally there and dedicated for you and helping there and his door's always open, I could always approach him and I thought, how does that guy doing it? I think he has something do with all the jobs that he's doing, his span of control at that time was huge and with all his responsibilities.

Nicole BonBut every time I spoke to him, he know a lot of personal things. He remembers things. And, yeah, that really made a difference for me at that wow. Did he ever see.

the Future of HospitalityDid he ever tell his secret how he did it? How he does it?

Nicole BonYeah. He said it does also due to his family life. He he he could really make a distinction between work and his private life, and his wife Isabella was was always there, brought some peace, made sure he set also the right priorities for his family. And not that he say it is only work, but yeah. He he he found some peace in his private life and that made him able to focus and give them the focus and energy to fully be present when he was working.

the Future of HospitalityOkay. And did you did you take some of those learnings with you in your daily leadership skills? Something that you I'm trying.

Nicole BonI think this I think this part of my it's up to my team to decide if I'm able to do so. I'm far more chaotic and than he is because when he when he was entering the room, he was bringing so much peace. And I think, you know, if I'm entering the room and I had a busy day, I'm all over the place. So it's something it's good to think back about him and hopefully that brings us some peace. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe doing more yoga and two more mindfulness sessions that I can really be in the moment present and bring some peace. Is it something that you execute already,

the Future of Hospitalityor is it still a learning process?

Nicole BonOh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's quite a hectic time, but we're actually facing with Gorenna now. Think it's a crazy time with everything that's happening in the world and anticipating as a company towards it. So that made it especially important to stay calm and bring peace and also towards the rest of the team members, not only with my own team, but the rest of the the company that they feel trusted, they feel safe, and not bringing any insecurity in the direction where the company is going. So yeah.

the Future of HospitalityOkay. Have you ever experienced a period of doubt in your career? Because we're always talking about what goes well, but we all well, we met our heroes, but we also met our devils somewhere along the way. Yeah.

Nicole BonYeah. I think I had that doubt, and I think it's and you were actually actually part of that as well together with Anna, another colleague, that when I left Corandon in 2022, and I didn't had another job yet, And I said, I will never go back in HR. Never. And here we are. May yeah. You can maybe remember those words. Yeah. And during COVID time, it was it was tough. And at that time, we were also opening a hotel at Curacao. So in I think it was February 2020 when we had a big recruitment event at the island. I think we recruited more than a 150 people there, and one bot nadir, we need to let all those people go, and and we all know we don't have the same social security system curacao as we have in The Netherlands, so there was a big impact of all those people.

Nicole BonAnd that really hit me and I think, oh my god. And if you look back at my career at that time, I love building, I love working for startups to get and make a company bigger and successful. And actually at that time within COVID, we were only downsizing the company and letting people go, and I said, oh my god, I hate that part of my job. And I want to pursue my career in a totally different direction. I even thought of starting my own company, a small restaurant, lunch restaurant, very small, very nice, just serving people, making some nice food, but nothing to do with HR anymore. But yeah. Tada.

Nicole BonIt's Yeah. You kind of failed there. The love is still there. The love is still there. Yeah. Really had to dust it off a little bit, but it's still there. Yeah.

the Future of HospitalitySo you're still well, you're still part of of hospitality and HR. So Yeah. So that kind of pales away. Yeah. Can you share an experience when you saw someone grow under your leadership and what it meant to you personally?

Nicole BonI think I have several examples, I think, within within my career. It also sometimes comes with if we have a nice good trainee within your team and you see them growing and it's the first experience within HR. And I also always hope that you can also pass the love for HR. And when they turn out their career and being really an HR manager somewhere, it it is really amazing. And I also had it within my past job, my last job. There was somebody working there, very shy and very modest, and she didn't really grow and was exposed to a lot of different challenges, but she took it on, gave her confidence and then you shot actually every day you saw her growing.

Nicole BonAnd I think that's that's if you just give people trust, but not letting them go fully, but being on the side and coaching them, I think they can do miracles.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Yeah. So you're kind of miracle worker too,

Nicole BonI hope so. I hope so. But I don't have that magic stuff for me. That's But the thing we said, you have the same, I think, Cindy, within your role as well. Sometimes when you come to a certain level within the organization, you also feel the responsibility for a team and let people grow. And I also see that sometimes I sometimes can recall some nice compliments they were giving you from people within the kitchen or on other levels that you also made some differences within people's lives. Not within your own team, I think within the company. I think it's also maybe nice to share.

the Future of HospitalityNo. That's that's very sweet. But I think it's when you go into HR for for the for the right reasons is that well, we like to take care of people, and that goes beyond our teams. And I just like I'm not in the same hotel every day anymore, but I I I have the privilege to go everywhere. And, yeah, I'm just curious about people and how they are doing and to help them out, to help them grow also, but also just to ask them how are you doing. Usually, then the stories come, you know, and also the complaints and Yeah. Like, because you're you listen.

the Future of HospitalityAnd it's oh, yeah. It always makes us feel good when when people tell you that that you made their day with just some small remarks or just giving out a compliment. I'm still getting that into the organization to be more resourceful with complementing people that they also walk by just to see how everybody's doing. My job is just to facilitate and make everybody happy, I always say. So on one hand, I think we have the best job still, but also sometimes the easiest job. Just just make everybody happy.

Nicole BonYeah.

the Future of HospitalityFrom your perspective, when we are looking from your career to HR, but also in hospitality in general, What do you think is truly working right now in attracting the right people for the hospitality industry?

Nicole BonIt's I think, but that's of course, times is changing, if you look also at the different generations that we're having. But we it's it's not one size fits all. And we we actually experienced it also already within the hotels that we were working for. We were all working for Corendon hotels, but every hotel was also different. So it's also tailor work that we're doing. It's people have different ambitions and that's what we also see the way how work is positioning the current days and in people's lives. It has a different place in their in their life. If we look back at the years, maybe my my two daughters always say, early, my release is at the moment, it's just it's just work hard, and that's what you're taught, and that's how you were raised as as a child. If you just work hard, you will get there.

Nicole BonBut that's not the case anymore. People have different expectations of work. It's work is more how they work and facilitate their personal goals, what they want to achieve, what's in there for them. And there's no right or wrong. It's just the way how, work is perceived nowadays, also regarding the flexibilities, but also the impact now of old automation, digitalization, and also bringing AI. Yeah. Those developments goes so quickly at the moment that we also require different competencies and different type of people within the company. So we have to stay close of how we use all our resources and then especially our human resources. And it's just a big shift, I think, how we look at people and what they should bring.

Nicole BonAnd I I believe that AI can absolutely not replace our workforce, especially not in hospitality, because it's especially also what the personalities of each and every person also bring to our guests to be authentic, and it's really also still make a difference to it. But it's not easy nowadays, especially when the labor market is under pressure. Yeah. It's it's going to be more costly. It's it's still quite expensive. And we also had it when we had to build up the teams again after COVID that we had we had to recruit abroad. So also get people in from other countries. It also has also a big impact on the the current teams and to be more international.

Nicole BonBut I think if you look at the resilience of the teams within hospitality, that's really amazing. They can cope with so many things. They are so flexible and so resilient. So I think it can never be replaced by AI, but it's my personal opinion.

the Future of HospitalityNo. I think I agree on that. But I think the whole the the the the pressure on the labor markets and also the the entrance of AI in our society makes it that I think it's it forces us to look at employment in a different way because, well, we're not gaining any people with it. The the the the task force becomes smaller and smaller. Why do you think that AI has a part in in hospitality? Why do you think it's applicable and and where not?

Nicole BonYes. Of course, there's still also room for AI there all with all the repetitive tasks that can be taken away, I think, behind the scene if you look at all the back offices, but also for the people with checking in, make it more easier, But also all the financial procedures, with payments, with stuff, I think there's still a lot to gain. And we can also do it in a different way, but we already see that we have also the digital checking in, the online checking ins that's already going on. And we can learn a lot more about our guests also through to AI, so that can make it more personal and and more tailor made. So we can we can also use it in our benefits to learn more about our guests, to give a more tailor made guest experience towards them.

the Future of HospitalityAnd where is the how do you see the role of HR within this whole new era with AAAI? Where is our role?

Nicole BonCurrently, we that just to to educate them in how to use AI in a very responsible way, in a more ethical way. I think we still have to make some steps to make sure we not throw everything into AI, into or an open AI that make it really, really dangerous, but use it in a very responsible way. But also ask yourself the question, why are we putting things to to AI? What we want to gain from it? So that make it very, important, but it can be used I'm I'm not a specialist in AI AI, not at all. But yeah. I think we also it's our responsibility to make sure that we educate our teams to to use it in a very good, honest, and respectful way.

the Future of HospitalityAnd, if we take that into a a broader scope because, I totally agree with you that I think that HR also needs to guide an organization in use of AI and also to think about how we can use it, but also the adaptability of it. But why do you think that HR can make the biggest impact in in hospitality in in general?

Nicole BonI think it's also like we already addressed. It's still a very tight labor market. So once, for example, if we have a vacancy, I think it's also up to us to challenge our managers if we still need this position or can we just fill those needs and those resource needs in another way? Can we just work more smarter? Yeah. We always say smarter than harder. That makes it really really important. And for example, if we have a vacancy, for example, in our back office, we're doing all the the road tasks, all the scheduling, all those kind of things, that's actually a perfect example that nowadays can be done by AI or can be done by tooling that we have with workforce planning.

Nicole BonSo actually we don't need those kind of humans or persons anymore to fill those kind of tasks, do those kind of tasks. So that's also make it very good combinations where we can use our resources more effectively. And then we hopefully have more focus on how we can deliver the perfect guest journey in all those kind of things. And I think it's up to us to address those challenges that we're having and how we use our resources. But also challenge our managers if they really need a person to do the work, but also maybe some other intelligent tooling.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. It's all about people in the end. So and everything that we can that can be done by AI, I think we should go there in the future. But people together creates culture, and culture is like yeah. It's very abstract, but it's very important. What do you think what creates a culture where people generally want to stay within the company?

Nicole BonI think it's it's a if people feel seen and heard nowadays, and if a company can also bring something to them personally, not only it's it's always give and take, but nowadays, it's it's very important. Of course, and everybody signs a contract and you have to deliver some efforts and some jobs and in return you get paid. But nowadays, it's far more than just a transactional agreement that we're having with each other. And like you already said, it's it's it's normally the culture and the companies that make a difference for for people. And that's why I think it's very important in in the selection process that as a company you're very aware that the other people sitting at the end of the table is also what's in there for me. And they need some kind of fulfillment of their personal needs and how that work.

Nicole BonIt's not only seen as work anymore for the current generations. It's bigger, they ask for companies who have sustainability on their agenda. They want to make a difference in society, for example. So it goes far beyond delivering a project or a product or service. Mhmm. It's also like you said how how you as a company take your responsibility with all the pollution, with all the how we deal with poverty in the world. Is the company giving a lot enough back to to the world? So that makes it very also important. And that's and that also shapes a culture of of giving back, I think. Yeah.

the Future of HospitalityAnd if think we agree on the fact that a culture becomes more and more important for for new candidates, new employees. Do you think that the role of HR also evolved with that? Does our role become different when culture becomes more important?

Nicole BonTotally. But I think that's the whole development of of HR as we've seen the last decades. In in I think decades ago, it was more like transact transaction law. We make sure people signing a contract, make sure they don't do anything against the law. And in the end they get paid, buy for it in the salary at the end of the month. But that's changing all the time, but all those kind of tasks can already be delivered by some systems and things. So I think where we can really add value is make sure that we keep the culture strong and the culture is also, how do you say that, clear to everyone.

Nicole BonBecause sometimes it's more important that it's not some wording on the wall or people just saying it. I think culture is something that employees should feel and I think that HR is playing a very important role in keeping that alive and make sure it's embedded in everything that we do. But it's a shared responsibility, and I think we should chase it and should make sure that it's on everybody's agenda, and it goes from top down, but also from bottom up that make it made it really strong. So yes, we definitely have a very important role to play in how to create it within our organization and to keep it on the agenda.

Nicole BonBut let's say you always want to say people don't only talk about it, but they should feel it, and that's the most difficult thing to get sure that people really, when they're stepping into an hotel and that's their new workplace, that they can really feel it. And I think one of the biggest compliments that we got from people working for Corandon, especially for the hotels, that we say we really have part of our mission vision is that we are family and get the the feedback back from people that they're saying it really feels like a family. And sometimes they can hardly explain why it is, but they just feel it to be part of the family.

Nicole BonI think, okay. I do sometimes I don't know how we did it. It's just there, so we did something right in that case. Yeah.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. I feel the same way. And it's still because we define this call this culture and this DNA when you were still our HR director. And, well, up to this day, we we still living it, and we still try to select people on basis of that DNA. But, of course, well, people and and culture always gives a lot of challenges. What do you personally focus on when you first step into these kinds of challenges with people or culture?

Nicole BonThat's a good one. I always want to be very transparent and people don't feel something is done behind their backs or I have a hidden agenda. So everything should be fair. So fairness in payment, fairness how we treat people. If we do something for one of those teams, it should be done by the other teams as well to being really being treat people in an equal equal way. I think that's really important for me. And also something like justice. If yeah. You can really get me angry and to strive for to make sure that that everybody is treated in in the same way. And, yeah, that's really yeah. That's really important for me. Yeah.

the Future of HospitalityHave you ever also underestimated a a culture issue that later become, like, really big or that that you guys kind of, okay. This is was totally not what I expected to from the outcome.

Nicole BonYeah. For me it's really important, like you said, if you feel that something is wrong in a culture, that you feel there somewhere in certain people have some negativity, don't have the right agenda, always go for their own interests and not serving the interests of other people, don't underestimate what's the harm they can do. Maybe it's only a small group of people, what damage they can do to the rest of the teams and but also how an obstacle it can be to really achieve the organizational goals. And then makes it really, really difficult to to get them in the same way that's in the same direction that we would like them to have, so that requires a lot of management skills of their manager.

Nicole BonAnd also together with HR really or to isolate that kind of behavior or to really address it, because you never want that people say, okay, especially apparently this is the the kind of behavior that the company allows. So it has a bigger impact than only the behavior for individuals. So if you don't treat it or don't deal with it in the right way as a company, it says a lot how you deal with it on the organizational level with that kind of behavior. Yeah.

the Future of HospitalityTrue to that. Yeah. What is a misconception about HR that you once believed yourself?

Nicole BonI think I still had it yesterday. I was actually entering a team meeting to do some explanation about something, and people and the the team didn't know that I was joining the team session. So when I'm answering, you see all those scared eyes and think, oh my god. HR is in the room. I think and the first thing I think, oh my god. People are still scared when the HR director is coming. I was just only there to give some explanation about something right. And so maybe to say I'm not only the hire and fire department. I'm always there to bring peace and good news.

Nicole BonBut, apparently, that's some kind of reputation that still exists within within our current company. Yeah. So I always say I always say when I'm now entering thing, I come in peace. I come in peace. Yeah. Yeah. White flag. I'm okay, guys.

the Future of HospitalityNobody gets fired. No. Yeah. No. Well, sometimes it happens, so I ask them. It's a it's a funny example. I totally get it. Oh, HR is at the table. But Yeah. Get scared. So Yeah. Yeah. What was a moment where a hotel's team was struggling with engagement and retention? And what did you do to turn it around? Because we're we're still struggling these days with engagement and well, getting people in as one, but keeping them is is like the real challenge. Any thoughts on that?

Nicole BonOh, that's a difficult one. I think one of our strengths at the time was really thinking out of the box, because every hotel will be the same. So you have to think about what can we do differently. And that was also I think we were very close at that time, not only the managers, but also the HR team. What really drives our current staff managers? What do they want? What's important to them? And, of course, you cannot always make it tailor made for everyone, but if we hear and listen and and make it happen for each individual. And everybody in their in their comes in a different phase in their life, they have different priorities.

Nicole BonAnd for example, if you have people who just become a father or a mother or become parents, they have different needs in their work, maybe more flexibility around the working hours, maybe divided their hours into in in a different way. So, yeah, it's it's it's really important to keep them and to make sure we can are really open to what their individual needs are and try to see if we can do something different. But it was also brainstorming about what we can do differently. Like is them and like you said, we also work now with students, a lot with students. So also the the close collaboration with schools at the time that we set up.

Nicole BonIt's more like people had some kind of distance to the labor markets, privacy, and help to close those kind of gaps and work with those people. So, yeah, it's it's really thinking out of the box.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Thinking outside the box, of course, asks for a certain manager or leader. What do you believe hospitality leaders still underestimate about talent today?

Nicole BonThat's a good question. But I underestimate If you can

the Future of Hospitalitycertain talents that well, because there are a lot of people coming into the business with many talents. But, well, a few years ago, everybody was doing the cherry picking, and now we are forced to look to have a a broader wider scope towards who we are hiring because, well, there aren't many people out there. Do you think that hospitality leaders still underestimate maybe a certain group or that we don't see the talents in people due to the fact that we only want to have them maybe people from hotel schools and not like mothers who want to work from seven to twelve, for example.

Nicole BonMhmm. I think hospitality is one of the the the perfect industries where you can really be trained on the job and progressing your career by learning and learning on the job. I think if you have the passion for the industry and you have the passion for people, not only for people working in your team, but also for the guests, I can you can do great within the hospitality business. Because you can learn so much on the job. You're exposed to so many different situations, difficult situations. Now we already said it, we can already write a book of everything that happened within the hotels. So It's it's amazing, but I think that's also a great opportunity for people stepping out of their comfort zone.

Nicole BonIf something happens during their night shift and and they just have to deal with it and they have to always solve the problems on the spot. So that's why it's it's it's a great learning place for each individual. And I had two weeks ago, my eldest daughter want to go to the hotel school as well. Oh. So we went to an open day, and when we heard the presentation and they say during their internship, they actually are forced to go abroad because they every time the hotel school wants that all the students go out of their comfort zone. So they're learning, they will be exposed to different kind of situations.

Nicole BonFor example, in The Hague, they have to be in in a room with a roommate, they don't know. And then they are forced just to if they have issues, just to solve it. And I think that's only not within the hotel scoop, but I think that's also on on the workflow as well. So I think that's it's really an underestimated

the Future of Hospitalityindustry, I think, hospitality,

Nicole Bonbecause you learn so much about yourself, how you deal with different situation, how you deal with different kind of people from other nationalities with different needs, difficult guests, easy guests, crisis situations, angry guests, and you just have to solve it. So it's an it's an automated learning Exactly. And I think I think you can never have that kind of experiences that you are exposed within the hospitality in any other industries. Maybe what we have, for example, within Corinna, within the airlines, I think the experienced people our cabin crew have on board and exposed, I think it's also similar, but it's also for hospitality. But it's amazing. And I think we don't have to underestimate just the people who just our waiters who are just serving our guests. I think sometimes the way how they're exposed to so many different situations and they have to deal with it, because the manager is not always around on scene second and sometimes you make the guest even angrier and then you said, okay, hold on, I I will get a manager. They want to have it solved on the spot and they have to deal and they want to deal with you at that time.

Nicole BonSo that makes it, I think, a very unique industry.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Yeah. I still think I still rate it as the best industry ever because there there is so much to it. And I always say, definitely to students and trainees, we are in the best business. What do you like to do when you go in your in your free time? Oh, like to go out. I wanna go to a restaurant, go to cinema. And I was like, that's all hospitality. So we're in the people of people making people happy, and they're coming well, the whole world is in your hotel or in your in your airplane. So that asks a lot, but it's also the most fun. I'm totally convinced.

the Future of HospitalitySo Yeah. What advice would you give young HR professionals who wants to build who wants to build careers within the hospitality industry?

Nicole BonI would say learn as much as possible, because as an HR you are exposed to so many different departments. Because we as HR, we see how every department we have to deal with every kind of department. For example, if you work within marketing or sales, and that's only that working area, but we are exposed to so many different jobs, positions. So you not only learn a lot about HR and how to deal with people, but also really how to run actually an organization, how all the processes goes, where are the responsibilities, how will all the communication go. So it's it's more than learning within HR, you learn a lot about companies and my advice always would be would be very open to it. So ask the questions, dive into really the organization, not only from HR perspective, because I always find it important to always know what the company goals are and we make sure that we facilitate the company as much as possible to achieve those goals. And we all know that the human part is most important because you need them to deliver everything and if that's not there and if they don't look in the same directions, then you will hardly achieve your commercial goals, your organizational goals.

Nicole BonIt ain't gonna happen. So if if you're open to it, can learn so much about how a company is set up and and and it's it's a big learning curve for everyone at the time. Yeah.

the Future of HospitalityWell, that's a beautiful, beautiful advice. Wow. I see that it's just like old days with you. When I'm talking to you, time really, really flies. Yeah. We're almost in it for an hour. We're almost there. Yeah. So yes. And we can go on for hours, but I think that's the So I will put one last question for you. Of course, this is a podcast. It will be listened to by, I hope, a lot of people. But if this Yeah. Is listened to by hotel leaders tomorrow morning, what is the one message you hope truly lands with them?

Nicole BonMake sure you have HR as you ring them. I think that's the most important. I think nowadays HR maybe and also people in the board should deserve to be on the executive be in executive boardroom, because it's become nowadays becoming more and more important and we can really make a difference in in how successful a company would be.

the Future of HospitalityI could not agree more with you. Nicole, thank you so much for being my first guest on this podcast. It really, really was a pleasure.