De prijs-mindset die hotels tegenhoudt

Tim BoersmaIf you get fully booked more than thirty days before arrival, your price was too low, especially from a numbers perspective point. But but the I think that will be always the case. If I had done this, then this would happen. And that that's also the tricky part with with revenue management because it always could have gone differently, but you can only sell the room once.

the Future of HospitalityWelcome to the revenue playbook, part of the future hospitality. My name is Alon Skuri, and today, I'm joined by Tim Buzma, revenue manager at Rumfries Genie, someone who works closely with independent hoteliers who want to grow revenue without losing control of their business. Now in this conversation, we'll unpack the mindset shift that helps hotels move away from static pricing and toward confident data driven decisions. We'll talk about the most common pricing mistakes independent hotels make, where to start if revenue management feels overwhelming, and which metrics actually matter. So, Tim, nice to have you as a guest. Really great to have you, and welcome.

Tim BoersmaThanks for thanks for having me. Thanks for the invite,

the Future of Hospitalityand let let's let's go forward with this one. Cool. Cool. So before we start, can you maybe share a little bit more about your background? Because now you work at Room Price Genie, but beforehand, you worked at some other places. Okay. Maybe tell a little bit more about about you. Yeah. I my first connection with revenue management was actually as an intern. I started as an intern to to LH.

Tim BoersmaFun fact about this is that after my internship, I said I will never work within revenue management anymore. So I moved forward to finance. Did the finance internship, stayed in finance for a while. And, actually, afterwards, I handed in my thesis after stopped for a little bit. The first LinkedIn message I got after I handed in my thesis is like, are you looking for a job? I have a job in revenue management. If you're interested, let's have a conversation tomorrow. I was like, yeah. I I need a job, actually. So then I came back into revenue management at Vanderbulk. Afterwards, I moved to to Intel.

Tim BoersmaAnd, actually, almost three years ago, so I moved to to Rumpraschini. Cool. So, yeah, I had a small journey within the revenue management

the Future of Hospitalityin in the Bellix market. I have to ask. You know what I have to ask. Right? Like, why why did you hate it so much? Why did you say it, like, not for me, revenue management? Yeah. Actually, I I think it was the the worst timing to start within revenue management.

Tim BoersmaBecause, actually, when I started, I think a little while later, COVID hit. Mhmm. So, actually, it was almost nothing to do. Everyone had to work from home, only had to make reports, copy, paste, send them out, and so on, but, actually, nothing was moving forward. So I I I think, basically, it was just the timing. It was the timing to step into revenue management, which didn't fit very well at that point. But,

the Future of Hospitalityyeah, happy to be to be back. That that's a good answer. That's that's a good answer. COVID is a good excuse. So

Tim BoersmaIt's a good excuse for a lot of them. For

the Future of Hospitalityexactly. Exactly. So if you want to dive a little bit deeper into revenue management, first of all, also in regards to your experience about revenue management, like, what is the most of course, it changed in the years, I guess. But what is the most common challenge that you see that hotels have in regards to to revenue management?

Tim BoersmaI I think it depends a lot what kind of properties. If I speak more about the properties I worked with in the last three years, I think time and timing is a is a very big topic. But also the, like, how close they are towards their own property and how how emotionally involved they are with their prices, can be a very big obstacle for for a lot of smaller properties and mainly, owner operator. Where where you see that they're struggling, especially in undervaluing their product, I think that's that's the most common thing you see. And it's very hard for them to move away from that, because they are emotionally very close towards the properties And getting the prices right in terms of timing and time, I think time is the biggest challenge for the most of them.

Tim BoersmaWhen do I need to do it? I don't have time for this. How much time should I invest? All those questions are are fair,

the Future of Hospitalitybut there is a willingness to to do it. However, you have to find a space for it. Yeah. True. But why why do they undervalue it? Like, I would say, maybe that's my instinct. If it's my hotel, then I think, like, you know, it's worth even more. But what how how does it work? Pretty curious. Yeah. I think that a lot of hotels or the years are scared

Tim Boersmathat they're overpricing their property, especially when they when they check-in a guest and they have to to ask for the money or they have to ask for the check-in, that they are scared that they get a negative review or or something like that. And be because they are heavily involved in everything. I think that's something you see and as always comparing on pictures towards other properties, but look look how nice that looks and how look how great it is. And then we have our property, which maybe doesn't have a spa. So Yeah. We can even ask that. Or we always had €110, and now we go to 150, so we can never go more.

Tim BoersmaSo it's it's just it's not not maybe not afraid.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. I know what you mean. They have, like, too much because they work in the industry, so they have the knowledge of all the competitors. They know this price is there a little bit cheaper, and they they offer kind of more. So then they look at it from their own perspective that it's kind of maybe expensive if you Yeah. And I think also that they

Tim Boersmamight think about some would I pay for this myself? Yeah. And I think that's that's a very tricky question, especially when you when you get in your own hotel, like, three hundred sixty five days a year True. That you see also the downsides of the property. Well, if you stay only for for two days, you might only see the benefits or you might see the the nice location and never think about, oh, there might be construction works three blocks away. Yeah. That's a really good point. Yeah. That you

the Future of Hospitalityyou you don't you are too close to the elephant that you don't see the elephant kind of concept because you you are in the hotel. You you it's not an experience for you. You don't say, like, wow. What a nice lobby. Exactly. And and and, of course, like,

Tim Boersmasometimes it's also the other way around. But especially in the in the low season, they are maybe slightly overvaluing the the or or don't want to go lower because they found the property more worth more. And, actually, it might be worth more as a as a general view, but the market and market circumstance and an area circumstance does a lot to pricing. Yeah. Because the property at the the January 1 or the January 31 or December is actually still the same property. Yeah. And they might be the same sheets. They might be the same products. They might be the same people.

the Future of HospitalityHowever, there are a lot of external factors which are changing, and I think that's very hard to see when you, you know, watching closely to the other Yeah. That's for sure true. Because how how do those independent, more smaller hotels, how do they do their pricing if they they're not the revenue manager management expert? Like, how do they do it? Just gut feeling? Or I think mostly, it's gut feeling.

Tim BoersmaFor for some of them, it's gut feeling. For some of them, it's like inflation on price compared to previous years. I I think there are steps made in, okay. We know that this season is already slightly better than this season, so we can push up the price a bit. And, of course, then there are the hotels which are looking at booking.com, what do competitors do. I think I think you fairly see that it's reacting towards a market on a short term. So most likely, it's gonna be one month ahead, maybe two maximum to to adjust prices towards the market. That that's mainly the the slightly shift you see when they don't have a revenue manager or don't have a revenue management system or

the Future of HospitalitySo that's like one of the kind of the mistakes, if I can call it like that, that they they can improve on. But if if you can maybe name some other kind of mistakes, if I can call it like this, that that hotels make if they if they're not aware of revenue management best practices.

Tim BoersmaYeah. I'm not sure if I wanted to call a mistake. Maybe a missed opportunity.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Exactly. That's better. I will

Tim Boersmaactually, there are quite a few things, and I think I think especially it has more to deal with with a market and an area circumstance which is changing than than the property itself. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, if you look at at the whole revenue manager's perspective, it's always the guest who decides what they're gonna pay because they hit the bottom and they say, okay. I want to pay this amount for this property. And it's not only the property which is deciding the value, but it's also, like, everything around. So I think the the very best example in in The Netherlands, this case, is is Sandfort.

Tim BoersmaDuring the Formula one, the hotels don't don't don't change. However, the price is maybe double the True. So especially taking into consideration what are the market circumstances and what is actually the area circumstance is something hard to measure, especially for for properties which do everything manually. True. So I I think that's very hard for them, especially in terms of time because it takes it takes time. And, also, fingerspeech and groovle Yeah. At one point.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. True. True. But in regards to that's nice that you said the Zandvoort Formula One example. Like, of course, every year, there are specific kinds of events that are kind of recurring, but I guess that there are also a lot of kind of dynamic events that that if you don't know what happens in the area, then you don't know that there's a Justin Bieber. I don't know why I said Justin Bieber. Sorry. I could have said other actors, but You are a big fan. No. Not not really. But but that how how do they how how how does it work with that? Like, do you have to be as a revenue manager to to always know what happens in the area? Is that like a

Tim BoersmaIf you if you are a worker revenue management, I think that's your daily job as well to know what's happening in an area. Like, a market most likely will reflect area circumstances. Mhmm. So when you break it down, you have area circumstances, then you have a market response, and then most likely, a hotel will respond afterwards. Yeah. However, if the area circumstances are are having a very big influence, then it might be that you are too late to react to market circumstances. True. Especially from a revenue manager perspective, it's spotting those, potentials increase before you have to follow. Nice. That that that's a very important topic in this case to to actually, yeah, foreseen what what's what's gonna happen in those cases. Is it difficult? Yes. Because sometimes it's announced at 12:00 in the night, and then the next morning, your flipbooks

the Future of HospitalityYeah. That potentially happen. Yeah. That that sounds really difficult. Yeah. Yeah. So so if we talk about, for example because what you basically mean that revenue managers should be more data driven instead of, like, gut feeling, if I can say this correctly?

Tim BoersmaYeah. I I think there is a very big difference between especially when I look at my journey, from from beginning to end, when spending time in finance, which is purely data driven, numbers are numbers, and numbers are telling the story, to big hotel chains where I think this is a fairly big impact because you're not emotionally involved within the property. True. But that's shifting towards the smaller properties more or less. Misunderstood when I just started how big the impact is of the emotional part of the hotelier. Because for me, being a numbers guy, making that translation because you see opportunities. However, there are roadblocks by emotional by emotional things. And I think that's that's the most difficult part to make that shift.

Tim BoersmaBecause I think, especially for the smaller properties, let's call it smaller between brackets, There are a lot of opportunities from a more data driven perspective, but it's more in terms of how far are you willing to go on an emotional perspective to let those prices go to where they could be.

the Future of HospitalityCan you give an example?

Tim BoersmaI think I think the biggest example is we have a we had a hotel in Maastricht, which was not willing to go over, let's say, a number of €150. However, we did know during Andre Rieux, the concerts that that markets markets value of those rooms would be around 300, maybe €400.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Wow.

Tim BoersmaAnd and still, they were not willing to be made that high because of their emotional Roblox. And we had the discussion. We we talked a lot, they said, okay. Let's go to 200. And, actually, they sold out within within minutes. Wow. And then afterwards, she said, okay. May maybe I could go a little bit higher. Yeah. But it's also gaining that trust that if you if you are willing to go slightly higher, you get a great response from your guest. It gains trust as well to be a little bit more bold and brave next year. Exactly. So I think that's that's a very, step by step approach, for a little bit the smaller properties.

Tim BoersmaIf you move away from that, then you go to the investment funds and then you go to the big change, and it's it's totally different. And and that makes that makes working there and working with owner operators different. Made it fairly, very different.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. For sure. I I get that. Also very

Tim BoersmaBut also very interesting.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. It and that that must be very interesting. If it's more complex, makes it also more interesting, especially for a numbers guy.

Tim BoersmaYeah. And I think it's also fair to say that they are protecting the value of their property in a sense. And then for me or us, it's it's to to show them that there is even with the protection they give it to the property and the care they put into the property, they

the Future of Hospitalitythere is a higher platform or a higher price to to sell for. Yeah. And that's a very interesting approach towards those kind of properties. Yeah. You kind of triggered me with the emotional part because, basically, that's where it begins. It's not a rational conversation about what should be the price. It starts with the mind shift that you have to you have to have the courage to kind of let's see if they would pay this amount. Right? Because because if it's fully booked after one minute, then you you could be happy. You could say, like, ah, it's fully booked, but you could also say, like, ah, shit. I could maybe add another €50

Tim Boersmaper per night. I I I think that that last case will always be the case Yeah. Because there was especially when you get fully booked, and and we always say if you get fully booked more than thirty days before arrival, your price was too low, especially from a numbers perspective point. But but I think that will be always the case. If I had done this, then this would happen. And that that's also the tricky part with with revenue management because it always could have gone differently, but you can only sell the room once. True. And and then it's gone. I mean, you cannot sell the room from yesterday. And then that makes it that makes it slightly more difficult because you can never undo it or redo it. Yeah.

the Future of HospitalityTrue. True. So it's a what if. It's always a what if, and there

Tim BoersmaI think there's never gonna be a perfect price.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. For sure. Depends on so many things. You don't you don't always know also why somebody pays this or that. You you can you can guess maybe because it's because an event or whatever, but you never really know what maybe you had, like, 30 customers or guests coming in that they are just have a little bit more money, and they are in a good mood, and they said, let's pay it, and I don't care. You you don't know.

Tim BoersmaAnd it can also be those in returning returning guests at one point, which was like, oh, the price is slightly higher, but an amazing experience. Yeah. True. They are not coming from the for that event. They just want to be there again. True. So you you never get a 100% truth. However, have a have a more slightly more data driven background will at least give you more information

the Future of Hospitalitythan what they have at at at the starting point. Yeah. That's nice. That's nice. And for hotels that that never did something with with this, never did they're just like like we said in the beginning, gut feeling this was the price five years ago. They maybe added, like, 5% each year. I don't know. Like, how why don't they do anything with revenue? Like, what is the objection for them to to start? Like, does it feel overwhelming for them to to to do something like this? There are many different

Tim Boersmaroad brokers in this case. It it can be time. It can be overwhelming. It can be be undereducated in in terms of this sensitive area because at the end of the day, it's quite a sensitive area. Yeah. Because you you talk about price, and I think with the most people, if you talk about money, that's quite a sensitive sensitive point. And, also, how how are we how at least I see it is like especially when we change the price and when they change the prices, they changing their own income. Because especially when they're the owner of the property, it's their own results which is gonna be on the line. Yeah.

Tim BoersmaAnd I'm not sure if everyone trust himself in order to to play around with that at a certain point. So I I think there are multiple differences. For for some hotels also, they they just have a conclusion in in their minds. It's not something for us. And and that's that's the roadblocker at the point. Yeah.

the Future of HospitalityAnd that's most likely the most difficult roadblocker to talk about. How can how can you change that? Because it's like kind of yeah. This is what it is. How can you change this roadblock?

Tim BoersmaI think for some you you you can, of course, get in the conversation. Okay. How did you make up the the decision at one point? But sometimes it's also what it is, and you have to accept. Yeah. And and that's also fine. I mean, at the end the day, if they are happy with the things they do, then they are happy with the things they do. True. If they're happy with with with the results of the property and and they are fairly happy in life and and and happy within the company, then then that's also fine.

the Future of HospitalityTotally fine.

Tim BoersmaIt's also not that people should get more stress from adding revenue management to their property because that's not the goal. It's not the goal to to get more stress. The goal is to to increase revenue to to take the opportunities, which fairly say are there during the year, and also be a bit more more relaxed.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Yeah. That that's nice that you said it because when you were talking about it, I was thinking it feels like kind of kind of a casino game that you have to raise a little bit. Then you're taking kind of a gamble because you could say if I leave it like this, I know what I get. No no surprises. Of course, I won't get the maximum, but I also don't have, of course, like, a sort of nobody book. So how how

Tim Boersmahow do you do you have, like, kind of I think the the what you say about the casino is it's it's always a good start for a conversation because it's at one point, it's also a bit of risk management because raising your prices will increase risk of not selling the room. That that's that's fairly true to say. However, being more involved with the prices and reducing the risk to adapt quickly is also reducing the total risk. Yeah. And that's funny because at the end of the day, the higher the risk you take as a from a hotel perspective in raising your price, the higher the maximum potential profit could be.

Tim BoersmaHowever Sure. The question is, how much risk are you willing to take? That's a good question. Yeah. And I think, Garrett, the guidance of of of getting more knowledge or or and being more, educated, having more trust in in the terms they do. They are willing to take slightly more risks in order to to increase the profits. And, also, if you're more educated and you have things to help you, then it's fair to say that maybe you don't even increase the risk. Yeah.

the Future of HospitalityCalculate it. At least more more calculated risk.

Tim BoersmaI think that's that's the thing. It's it's a calculated risk because you have more data. You can respond faster

the Future of HospitalityYeah.

Tim BoersmaAnd earlier,

the Future of Hospitalityand therefore, you're reducing overall risk. Yeah. Nice. Nice. And I I'm also thinking, like, it shouldn't be a a black or white. It's not like I'm doing revenue management all year long, every price, every day. You you decide. The silver decides or the revenue manager decide. You can also say, when there's a big event, want to change something. Right? And and for the rest, is there, like, kind of a is that how it works? Like, I can be more aggressive, less aggressive, more, like, evolved, less involved?

Tim BoersmaIt's always I I I think of being how much time can you spend? How much time are you willing to spend, and how much control are you willing to give away. Because the more control you're willing to give away and control a system or control a revenue manager would do the pricing for you because that's also also giving out control. You you can achieve more things by by automate more if it's set up correctly and if you control it in the correct way. Yeah. So there are properties which say, okay. I see that there's an opportunity. I will increase the price. Or I get an advice to increase the price there. Accept it. And the rest of the year, I keep on this.

Tim BoersmaAnd it's also fair to say that it's not only increasing prices. Yeah. That's fine. Because because the that's I think that's the main thing what hotels think as well. Oh, my loyal guest, I'm increasing the prices and they're gonna be upset. Loyal guests are super important. And it's fair to say that you're not only increasing prices because there are opportunities to increase ADR, so to increase the price, and there are opportunities to gain more occupancy by slightly reducing the price. Nice. And I think that that especially in that game, it can be that at the end of the year, you have the same ADR, but you have a higher occupancy because you increase your prices during the high season. You lower them slightly during the low season. You get more occupancy there. You have the same occupancy in the summer, for example.

Tim BoersmaYour ADR stay the same, but you have more occupancy, and therefore, you have more revenue. That's right. So, like, when I tell to friends that I'm into revenue management and they say, okay. What what do you do then? Like, yeah. I'm I'm helping hotels to increase their their revenue and say, oh, you were you were the guy which you were the guy who were increasing all all the rates all all year long. And I said to I say to them as well, like, sometimes, they're giving you a benefit as well. You just like to choose the right option to go. Yeah. I mean, more flexible.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Exactly.

Tim BoersmaOkay. You have to choose the days that that there's no Justin Bieber in the area. That's Exactly. Exactly. And and sometimes you have to go on a Sunday, and you will get a lower price than you might get before

the Future of Hospitalitybe because we are reacting to the to the to the demand in the market. Yeah. So so I guess you, as a guest yourself, and because of your experience, you know exactly

Tim Boersmahow to book the cheapest trips. Right? I have to the whole hotel website mainly, and then have a look on on which day. And I think as a guest, if you are flexible when you can go Yeah. It's always always cheaper from a guest For sure. Always good for for from a hotel perspective because they can spread the guest out. Yeah.

the Future of HospitalityExactly. Exactly. And you talked a little bit about the metrics, like how to because that's an interesting thing. Like, the ADR can be the same, but it's a different result. Like, which which metrics are really can you give some examples of which metrics are relevant as a revenue manager or as a hotel operator to to look at? Because not only revenue.

Tim BoersmaAt at the end of the day, for a hotel, revenue is important.

the Future of HospitalityAnd And if it's, for example sorry for interrupting me. If it's theoretically one guest pays 100 or 10 guest pay or 100 guest pay one k. Like, it's the same revenue,

Tim Boersmabut it's a different Yeah. I think and I think at that point, you have multiple different factors which come in place because you have more rooms to clean at this point. On the other hand, if you have, for example, restaurant, it's also important to know that if you have more guests in your hotel True. Higher the potential is that they spend more money within your restaurant or within your bar or or at your golf club or whatever. So that that's also fair to say. I think it's really important, first of all, before you go into the metrics, what kind of property do I have? Because do I have a property with very high cleaning cost, or do I have a property where my cleaning costs are okay, they are under control, but I have a very high extra spend of my guest? Yeah. Because that makes a lot of that makes a big difference between having one guest paying 100 k or or having a 100 guests paying thousand.

Tim BoersmaThat that's a fairly big difference. When you understand that art, for for the most of the hotels, they look into, okay, what's my ADR? What's my occupancy? That's, like, the basic first step. Yeah. And but also in there, if you understand your property True. Then you can look, okay. How big is the influence of my ADR in terms of my total revenue? How big is the occupancy for how big of an influence has my occupancy on total revenue? So if you have fairly high cost in cleaning rooms, then maybe if you can get the same revenue by increasing your your room rate but decreasing the amount of stay True. Then then you get an overall result which might be slightly better. Nice. And the same goes the other way around.

Tim BoersmaAnd and I think that's fairly important to understand what you're actually bringing to the table and what kind of property do you have before you go into the metrics. Because knowing your property will also decide which metrics are gonna be more important for you and build up towards the total revenue. True. And that's that's a fairly big difference. Again, if you go completely to the basics, I think a lot of properties look at ADR, and they look at at occupancy. For me, personally, I would I would always try to break it down into day of the week because they look at it on a monthly base and it can look amazing.

Tim BoersmaBut breaking it down into slightly smaller pieces, it will give you already slightly more information. Nice. When you have always the same ADR by just going into let's say we have one room type and they sell for a €100 and they have 70% occupancy across the year. Then breaking that 70% occupancy down into day of the week and in terms of months, it will already tell you, okay. For this €100, I'm selling my rooms for. I got a certain occupancy on those days. I get a certain occupancy on those days, and you actually will already see how a market responds towards your pricing. Nice. I think that's a very easy ex exercise, but it already gives you a lot of information about what kind of property do I have, how is the market responding to the price I'm currently sending into this world, and how is that reflecting in my property? Because if you already see, okay, for a €100 during January, February, I'm having 30% occupancy.

Tim BoersmaThat can be something, and you can be fully booked during all summer, and you get 70% occupancy across the year. It it will tell you something about how are people responding to towards my property. True. And maybe that €100 is slightly too much. It can be. True. It can also be that there are not more people willing to book anyways. That that's that's a potential. Yeah. That will that is something you only will know when you'd inter identify what's actually happening.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. That's really nice. I I love that one that you you basically triggered me that it's of course, revenue management is about revenue. That that's clear. But it's also before, and it's kind of a strategic approach. You have to look at what is my property. We can like you said, they have the same revenue but reduced cost because we have less guests, but they stay longer instead of them. Have to clean less rooms. And for every you know, some guests some hotels maybe say, I want more reviews or more short stays. I don't know whatever. Everybody has its own mindset. So it's more than just revenue. It's like a strategic mindset beforehand, and then you base it on the like like you said, you can decrease, increase. It can be a lot of things, but it has to be strategically

Tim Boersmathought of. Yeah. Exactly. And and I think, especially when you you step into this point, there is where it gets sometimes already a little bit tricky for some properties because they found this already overwhelming when you're gonna break down everything. Yeah. And that's fine. I mean, it's it's it's fine that they are struggling with this. And and having a helping hand on on certain points, it is nice. And if they are not willing to take that step at this point and they are happy in the situation they are, then I think it's all all also a thing of accepting that. Yeah. Because also when you when you look into the breakup properties, and it's an owner which is not the operator, they are how I'm gonna say this politely?

Tim BoersmaThey they are trying to maximize the potential and and the the revenue of the property. However, if you go to towards an an owner operator over a slightly smaller or a family owned business, It's treating that business with with love, with care, with everything, and having a good feeling about the business and and being comfortable around the business. And then the business, basically, for some of them, their life. They are always there. They maybe even live in the property. Yeah. And then having that extra hassle or having that that comfortability by raising prices to in order to reach maximum revenue, that cost them more than than being comfortable around the property. Yeah. True. I think that's that's that's very important to understand as well. If you if you speak to people and try try to get them into revenue management, it's maybe not a good word. But, if you speak to them and and try to educate and and maybe they are willing to go into revenue management, that's fairly important to understand that there are many different objectives to achieve

the Future of Hospitalityfor having a property or having a hotel. True. True. So it's basically about creating the awareness that it's possible. And then if you like it, you can do it. If you don't like it, at least you are aware of the things that you might miss. Because like you said, it's also about timing, not only for the guest, but also for the, for example, the property or the owner that maybe this year, he had a difficult year and he doesn't want to take some risk. And next year, he he had a great relationship with his wife and he's happy and the numbers are better, then he says, like, let's take some risk. It's also the mindset where which they are currently in.

Tim BoersmaBecause if I let's say differently, if I have a lot of money, if I I'm I can take a risk of €500. But if I don't have that much money True. For me, taking that same risk of €500 feels massive.

the Future of HospitalityYeah.

Tim BoersmaAnd I think that's that's also the mindset people are in is also and and the comfortable situation they are in, mainly in financial terms, is also saying something or potentially saying something about the potential risk they want to take with the prices. True. And then that's a feeling. That's a feeling. Yeah. For sure. For sure. And in this case, for us, it's it's important to educate them well because the more educated they are, the more relaxed they are. That's a nice And the more control they feel they have over the things they're gonna do. And also that, like, especially that feeling of control says also something about how relaxed they are going into this future steps. Yeah. Nice. Love the love that quote.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. The the more I control, the more relaxed, the more controlled that you said it super nicely. And in regards to room price genie, like, how can maybe shortly how do you guys help those hotels with with the software that you have? What what does it

Tim Boersmawhat does it do? I think the first step for us is always in terms of get get comfortable with them, especially when they never did something in revenue because there is a very big big difference. People going from one revenue management system or from a revenue manager towards another system, is a different guest pro client profile. When they are fairly new to revenue management, I think you have to handle them with with a lot of care. Yeah. And gain trust as well a bit from our side, that we know what we're doing, and we are willing to take them by the hands in in order to go into the journey.

Tim BoersmaI understand. Because it can be scary. Yeah. However, all scary things, if you have someone who guides you during your process, I think I I think it's not that scary anymore. Yeah. So so what we do mainly is that we we try to understand actually what they're trying to achieve and how how how is the property working. And especially what I said before with with having a certain price, having certain occupancies, we try to identify those possibilities with with the properties. And from there, we can actually show them, okay. Here's potential. Here's potential. And this is what you have to give away to a system, which you can control.

Tim BoersmaWe see that a lot of people trust the system, and they control from a distance. But this is what you what you potentially giving away in control by controlling a system, and this is the potentials we see. And I think during that whole process, guide them, show them what they actually can improve, where they can improve, and and being patient because not all of them will say, oh, we let's do a maximum price of €300. There are a fairly lot of hotels which say, oh, I don't want to go under a 100, and I don't want to go above 120. Yeah. And, of course, then we have the conversation to go up maybe to 140 or maybe 150 as a first step.

Tim BoersmaIf you have bookings for 150, the guest has arrived. The guest has left. They left a nice review. You have a call again with them. And afterwards, you can say, okay. How many guests did you have for all those 50? Did they not leave a nice review? Yeah. They're fairly happy with this. Let let's let's see if we can maybe go up to 160, 170 in order to to be comfortable in taking next steps, in order to reach your maximum potential profit.

the Future of HospitalityNice. But it takes time. It takes time. Yeah. It takes it takes trust not only in in in you guys, but also in in the system and in in revenue management in general and in that kind of stuff. Yeah. I love that that approach. Nice. Nice. And if know, this podcast is also called the future of hospitality. So we talk about the future. Of course, a lot of AI, a lot of new stuff coming up. So how how do you look at the future of revenue management, especially for those independent hotels?

Tim BoersmaI think the future just started, to be fair. I mean, yeah, especially independent hotels, revenue management is not there that long. So there's still a lot to gain in in terms of properties where don't do anything in revenue management. That's why I think for them, the first step, and that's what you see slowly already happening, is that they move towards revenue management. So I think that's the first step. And then then you have the factor of AI, and I think AI is a is a great thing. However, especially when you talk about a sensitive topic like pricing, it's fair to say that people want to understand what's actually happening.

Tim BoersmaAnd I think a lot of people are still looking for a solution which give them the trust and give them the insights of the decisions. So will AI completely take over? I'm I'm not very sure. Will it be part of a lot of things in terms of developing algorithms and developing those kind of things? Yes. But at one point, it will stick with an algorithm because an algorithm you can actually control, and you know that over and over and over, the same factors will be taken in consideration. So it gives you also, from a control perspective, it gives you more control than let things go loose.

the Future of HospitalityYeah.

Tim BoersmaYeah. So will AI help a lot? Yes. Will it completely take over? I'm not so sure. I don't think so. Yeah. But it will it will help in developing algorithms. But at the end, I think, especially those kind of things will mainly stick with algorithms and and machine learning, but but taking let's won't

the Future of Hospitalitytake it over. Jet GPT won't take it over for sure. And also, you know, I I think that data becomes more and more important, of course. So maybe AI can, for example, kind of see what kind of events are upcoming and kind of see it's also you if you have a lot of data, I don't know exactly because I wasn't a revenue manager in my past, but I think that if you have a lot of data, then then you can tell AI what kind of things can you learn from this data. And, of course, if it's data from two months, it's not enough. But if you have data from, I don't know, ten years, you can especially, like you said, you can see. This is what we've seen. AI can do the the help with that. I can give you some kind of insight. And and I think and and, again,

Tim Boersmadata from the past has already happened. Will it give an insight into the future? Potentially, yes. Will it predict the future? No. No. Because it already happened. And I think when when we were in the year before COVID, we had data from from ten years in the past. No one no one oversee COVID. That's true. So it didn't give you an indication of what's potentially possible in certain areas of the year. Yes. 100%. Yeah. Because you will see a pattern. Will that pattern be exactly the same this year as it was at last year? Completely not. Because as especially to give you a very quick example, the biggest difference between, the hotels we we service, this year compared to last year is that, people book shorter before arrival.

Tim BoersmaAnd we we have properties where there was the same demand in the market. They had the same amount of bookings. However, they had a slightly lower ADR. That can potentially happen. Yeah. The reason why for some properties, the ADR was slightly lower was that people booked shorter before arrival. And when you move it back towards willing to take risk, when you have 30% occupancy five days before arrival. Yeah. How many hotels will have are willing to take the risk to keep the prices high in order to take the gamble Yeah. That they will sell out anyway because they did last year. Nice. What will they do? They will do reduce risk by lowering the price.

Tim BoersmaYeah. And I think that's something we learned this year that demand was shifting not terms of periods, but more in terms of how far before arrival do they book. Nice. And there are a lot of reasons for this. One of the reasons is also that's fairly easy to book a room nowadays. True. True. So so if you're three days before arriving, decide to want to go, you open booking.com or another platform. You you fill it in, and you click which room you want, and that's all. True. True. But it's

the Future of Hospitalityalso that the guest thing that it's cheaper. Like, my sometimes when I go for vacation, my wife sounds like a revenue manager. She knows exactly, you know, one day before the prices go down, and then I said, no. No. That was, you know, years behind. It's not the thing again. But That still happen, especially especially in those periods where

Tim Boersmabecause there is always a shift in who's in control. Like, is the hotel in control or is the guest in control? And and there are it's fair to say that a lot of times, the guest is in control, because, there are still rooms available. Yeah. And when there are rooms available, our guest is in control which property they're gonna choose. True. When we go to the Formula One, hotels are in control. True. Because the demand is is outseating the market. And, therefore, hotels become in control in terms of the price they can ask for the property because there is an urgency. So and I think what we saw last year is that that urgency was shifting slightly more towards the hotels because they had a lower occupancy compared to the years before at the same point in time.

Tim BoersmaAnd when urgency grows, risk will grow. And and therefore, people were slightly reducing the prices.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Good for the good point.

Tim BoersmaWill will those properties learn from that this year? Volkswagen, yes.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Let's hope so.

Tim BoersmaBut but also that's not something yes. We saw it over the years slightly decreasing, but not that much. So, again, data can give you a lot of information about a lot of things. Will it 100% sure predict the future? No. Yeah. If you if you have a tool which can do that, then then please involve me Yeah. Because that would be super interesting. No. But but I I think that's that's the thing. Use it. Yes. Use an AI tool to validate that data. Also, yes, because there are a lot of reasons why data can be good or cannot be good. So I think especially using AI to to validate data, is a very good thing to analyze it as well.

Tim BoersmaIs it gonna protect and put predict the future? Nope. Nope.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Cool. Yeah. You you gave some good answers as well, and I like that it's always about thinking, like, for yourself about the bigger picture because maybe the generation shifted younger people don't book as older people. So it's not only data, data, data. It's always, you know, think logically what happens in the in the world. Maybe more wars. I don't know. Older people, the younger people, new generation. A lot of lot of stuff to change, so a lot of things can have an impact. Excellent. So I think that's what the generation shift is something. It's something. Yeah. For sure. That that will change, I think, even more in the future. Yeah. Especially with AI, how they will book.

the Future of HospitalitySo many people are talking about how will they book, you know, an AI agent that will book for you and a a lot of stuff that we

Tim Boersmadon't know about yet. And, yeah, we'll we'll for sure see how how it will go. Yeah. That keeps the future exciting as well. Right? I mean, if we can predict everything, then Then it's not fun anymore. Gonna be be slightly boring as well. Especially, yeah. It will be good. To make a podcast about the future of hospitality anymore.

the Future of HospitalityExactly. At least think about it and yeah. Cool. So so, Tim, we we are almost out of time here. Do you have something else that you want to share? It can be anything that you say, like, these are my last, I don't know, tips or words for somebody that wants to do something with revenue management, learn something, whatever?

Tim BoersmaI I think the the the thing is you have to start to experience and and do what at one point feel comfortable. I think that's the most important part, and and that profitability can grow by gaining more knowledge. And and it's not going to to directly to us. Of course, you you can go to opportunity to to ask tips or or or have a conversation about revenue management, but also speak to others. I mean, there there are a lot of professionals in this market. I think the the revenue management, job is growing as well because more and more, people stepping into road revenue management. So I think there are fairly is is a lot of knowledge in the market. So just gain knowledge before you step in something which you're not comfortable with. I think that's the most important part in in the law. Totally true. Totally

the Future of Hospitalitytrue. So, yeah, Tim, thank you. Thank you for your insights. Thank you for raising the prices when I go on vacation. Thank you for inspiring hotels to do that, and really thank you for your time. No problem. And and thanks a lot for having me.