The new rules of Hospitality Hiring

the Future of HospitalityOkay. Enough pillars for us to talk about. I will just try to to to remind you of certain pillars during our conversation. We'll we'll just pick them up as we go. What I would like to hear first, who is Alex? You are from Manchester originally. That's I think that's what I hear what I what what I heard. But can you walk us through the from the from the moment you started in your not in your current position, but what took you to your current position? Because you do real estate and hospitality. I would like to break that open a little bit and watch your passion. How how did that happen, what is it exactly that you do right now? But let's start with how it started.

Alexander ShawSure. I can take you through my my sort of early career, which isn't really probably what most people expect in all honesty. I started doing a bachelor's at Lancaster University in law. My In law. Plan Okay. Yeah. In law. Yeah. Exactly. Oh, wow. Alright. My my plan kind of moving forward, especially from a young age, was to always be a lawyer. That was that was for me. That was always gonna be my career path. I know what you're thinking. How did we get here? But we'll we'll go on to it. So yeah. So I did a bachelor's in law at Lancaster University. I then went on to do a master's in international law in Prague.

Alexander ShawI moved over there for a little while and did a bass master's there. Sorry. And then passed my LPC and worked in a in a law firm. So, originally, I was doing a lot of legal drafting mainly within the private client space. So drafting, wills, lasting powers of attorney, stuff like this. And then moved over to become a paralegal at another law firm, based in Manchester where I was, dealing with clients' inheritance tax, writing trusts and legal documents, stuff like that. And, yeah, I kind of I I qualified and thought, right. That's it. I finally made it after years of studying. And you know what? It just didn't quite fulfill me with the excitement that I thought I was gonna feel once once you've qualified.

the Future of HospitalitySo I'm gonna interrupt you. Why did you did that started studying law in the first place? Because didn't you know that, or shouldn't you expected that from when you started I mean,

Alexander Shawyou didn't it didn't excite you. And So you know what it is. I think, you know, I I had a a lot of not pressure, but I guess some guidance from from my family, right, where I'd say pro probably from a a kind of poor ish background. You know, I'm kind of one of the first people in my family to go to university. Okay. I see. So more it was more of a case of, you know, how far can I take it? Right? It's like if I'm gonna if I have the the chance to go to university, then what's the what's the best job I can get? You know? I can I see it? I see it now. Alright. Yeah. You look at all these films and TV shows, Suits, all that kind of jazz, and you're thinking, wow. Super exciting.

Alexander ShawGonna be in You were like mom and dad. I'm gonna be a lawyer. Yay. Exactly. That was one of the that wasn't nail on the head. I hit a nail on the head. And, you know see what you mean. And then you arrive, and a lot of it is is admins out of the at a desk writing up all these contracts, and it can be become very repetitive and, the journey is very the career path is very slow. And it just wasn't for me. You know? I I like I said, I did many years of studying. I arrived at the door, arrived at the gate, so to speak, and it kind of fell fell flat, you know. I wasn't getting that ambitious. You know, I'm I'm very entrepreneurial.

Alexander ShawI think, even as a kid, right, my my dad would work in a market on a Sunday. I'd be with him at kind of five years old. I remember one time, you know, we even had a a conquer tree outside the house. And, you know, when the season hit, all these conkers fell down. And I was like, right. How can I make some money out of this? So I had to have a load of boxes, put some conkers in a box in in a box with a load of string. I don't know if you ever played conkers when you were when you were younger, but we have a game called conkers over here.

Alexander ShawAnd I'd sell boxes of conkers with string on the market from the age of probably

the Future of Hospitalityseven years old. Viewers to the conkers, what what what is the game about?

Alexander ShawSo you you you get a conqueror or what would another word for conquer be? Kind of like a chestnut or something like that, a very big nut that will fall from the tree. You'd tie some string around it so it kind of hangs, and then the person, your competitor, would also have one. And what you would do is you would whack it against each other. It sounds silly now, but it's very competitive when you say I like it. And whoever's conquer came off the tree came off the string first, sorry, you'd be victorious. So I don't Right. So so, yeah, it's a very strange game. It's definitely popular kind of growing up as a kid. Didn't have so much to do with PlayStations weren't kinda kicking around.

Alexander ShawBut yeah, so I was very entrepreneurial from the age of like seven, right? Working in a law firm, that kind of repetitiveness wasn't bringing me that entrepreneurial spirit, that kind of, you know, that passion that I was looking for, so to speak.

the Future of HospitalitySo So where did you what what did you do? Because you were eventually, you ended up in hospitality in some way? So I actually

Alexander Shawbuild the bridge to there? So I ended up in, recruitment first real estate. Recruitment. Right. And how I got into that was the one of the one of my friends that actually put me into a law firm worked at a recruitment company called Hayes, which do kind of legal recruitment. I was speaking to him and he was absolutely loving it. Know? He was enjoying the business development, speaking to different law firms and stuff like this. All sounded very exciting. And I was like, well, I guess he said, this could be a good route for you. You know? You really enjoy speaking to people. You really enjoy listening and and and wrapping up as much knowledge as possible.

Alexander ShawAnd recruitment is all about, at the end of the day, networking. Right? Speaking to people, getting to know people's kind of pain points, let's say, and and bringing in the right people to fix that. I also wanted to move to London. So I applied for a role. I got the job at a company called Hire Capital, and they specialized in in real estate recruitment. So I I spent close to two years there focusing on investment and acquisition roles that would be kind of across all asset classes. So hospitality was I say not to be honest with you, probably not as inclusive as well, nowhere near as inclusive as what I'm doing now. I mean, I'm specializing in hospitality. Right? But at the time, I would look at, build to rent, PBSA, so student accommodation, be looking at offices, industrial logistics, a complete mixed bag in The UK.

Alexander ShawI went from there because my unfortunately, my mother got sick. She was based in in Manchester. I was based in London. It was a lot of back and forth while she was while she was poorly. So I left Higher Capital to look after her. Kind of still fell in love with real estate and wanted to carry on because real estate's really fast moving. Right? You know? Things are changing all the time. People are acquiring different things. And I was like, how can I stay in the game? So I set up on my own for a good year

the Future of Hospitalityand decided set up on your own. What did you do exactly?

Alexander ShawSo I set up, my own firm, which was Bowie Consulting, which is doing doing the same consulting. Bowie Consulting, which was doing the same as what I was doing, at Hire Capital, but say with a more of a hospitality hotel led focus. And I think the the reason why I chose hospitality, I I was speaking to I think I told you this last time we spoke on the phone, but and I don't wanna I don't wanna annoy anyone because I'm still working with some great clients within other asset classes. But, you know, when you speak to people within hotels, whether that be candidates, whether that be clients, there's that real passion there, you know. There's there's a bit of a flicker in their eyes. People that stay that are in hotels, start in hotels tend to stay there. And they really love to share, like, what they're up to, what their pipeline looks like, what they're working on at the moment. And, you you know, you sometimes compare that and and not to talk badly about other asset classes, but you compare that to someone that might be doing industrial logistics or offices.

Alexander ShawAnd, there's some exciting things going on there, but I just don't see the passion as much. Know? So that's why I kind of I went straight into hospitality and, you know, I've I've recently joined the guys at Avery Consulting, which was a a very Before we go to Avery, I wanna stay stay in Manchester for that year. For sure. For that year, you had Bowie.

the Future of HospitalityThis was your own firm, Bowie Consulting. That was you doing your thing in Manchester. Can you give me an example of one of your clients or what you have achieved or that you were passionate about? I would like to hear an example from your experience. Yeah. So a good one would be,

Alexander Shawyou know, I've worked with the likes of, London and Regional Hotels. Right? And at the time, when I was working for both consulting my own firm, they were in need of a transactional director. So for example, I would work on a role like that. Or if, you know, Starwood were looking for an analyst, so investment banking kind of private equity side, I would assist with that. If Savile's hotel capital markets team were looking for an analyst, then I'd bring someone in. Right? So it was that kind of thing. I ended up doing really well on my own, I won't lie. It was it was a lot of fun.

Alexander ShawMy network just grew and grew and grew in the hotel and hospitality space. I kind of got a name for myself, which I enjoyed. And it got to a point where a lot more people were coming to me asking for help compared to what most recruiters kind of dread the most, which is, you know, we're having to do a reach out to people and and do that kind of thing. Right? The reason why I kind of moved away from that is, when my my mom unfortunately, passed away. You know, And, because of the funniest that. How long is this not too long ago? Right? Yeah.

Alexander ShawKind of December time, not not too long ago. And it was one of those where as much fun as I was having on my own, it's always better to be kind of part of a team, but most importantly, of a team that shares the same kind of passions for you, right? And it wasn't a very easy decision for me to move over to Avery Consulting. I actually had five or six offers for other firms before I joined them. But, yeah, I finally made the move over to these guys a couple of months ago, and it's been bloody good decision so far. And I can tell you the reasons why shortly if you want me to, but and kind of why I chose them over others.

Alexander ShawBut, yeah, that's been kind of my journey.

the Future of HospitalityOkay. So you moved to London not too long ago.

Alexander ShawI Right. So I I've lived in London kind of three years prior. So I was living in London when I was at Higher Capital. I just moved back and was kind of Spanish. Alright. That's just what it was. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. And and even then, you know, I was spending half my week in Manchester, half my week in London because, you know, a lot of the the the real estate hub, let's say, is all based in London. Right? So if we wanna have meetings and stuff like that, it's always good to be still going there.

the Future of HospitalityI think. Okay. Let's let's take the make the jump indeed to Avery Consulting. That's where you are now. It's a recruitment agency. Can I yes, recruitment agency or consulting agency in London? But you are on the hospitality side. You explain or give me shine a light on what exactly it is what you were doing? And also, I still want to hear the spark of passion for that particular segment in this industry.

Alexander ShawSure. Well, in regards to what we do, and I guess I can kind of intertwine it with the reason why I chose Avery Consulting, would be good, is that, you know, a lot of offers I would I was getting from other recruitment firms were, look. Can you open our hotel desk for us? We don't do a lot in hotels. We do stuff in kind of the living space and build to rent, but not that knowledgeable in the hotel sector. With Avery Consulting, it was very different. Right? I spoke to their founder, Thomas, and he had a real vision, which was, look, we wanna be hotel specialists, but we wanna cover the entire radius, right, which is myself doing kind of and and, I guess, Thomas as well, doing investment, acquisition, feasibility led roles if we're working with hotel brands, for example, because they need a lot of feasibility people and development people, and also asset management, you know, because, obviously, you know, they they need people to report on their portfolio, manage their portfolio.

Alexander ShawSo me and Thomas focus on that. Now the best thing about about it is I I'm from The UK. Thomas is French. He's able to cover other European markets that I can't necessarily cover. So we there's some good connections there. One of the other good things is we have another person that focuses on hotel operations, so we can cover that. And what I love about Ed the most, if you ever speak to him, is the fact that his background is actually in hotel operations. So he used he used to work at Newmark doing openings and stuff like that. So I don't know if you're aware of Newmark.

Alexander ShawAnd, also, he covers hotel tech, and he actually owns in Germany a a company called Wondery, which is a a fully hotel tech hostel platform. So and then we've got another person which focuses on prop tech as well. So hotel tech and prop tech is something, and I'm more than happy to discuss the reasons why later on perhaps, But something that is really, really coming into fashion and is really a big need for a lot of people in the hotel space at the moment is tech and AI in hotels. I see that too on the podcast. I mean, it's all about tech tech tech knowledge. Percent. A 100%. So it's it's been quite amazing that, you know, everyone in in in our company has a real passion for hotels. We're all knowledgeable in our own sectors, which can cover, you know, the kind of the real estate side, the investment, the asset management, the feasibility. We can cover hotel operations. So, you know, once the the hotel is built or once someone acquires a portfolio Yes. Talking about that because that that what I wanna hear from you is an example

the Future of Hospitalityin your current position with the AVR Consulting focused on the hospitality market. Can you give me an example, maybe something you're working on right now? If you don't have to name names if you're not allowed to, but you're from my point of view, you're free to name brands, whatever. It's all alright. I just want to have a very glib picture of what exactly it is that you are doing right now and why you are doing it and what it looks like.

Alexander ShawSure. I don't know how much we can name names in all honesty when it when it comes to some of our our clients and just just because, you know, just in case they haven't been advertised live, let's say. But, for example, we'd be working with European hotel operators that are looking for a director of asset light investment or asset asset light hospitality, let's say. I'm looking for a vice president of acquisitions for a international hospitality investment manager at the moment. So it can be anything from kind of the junior levels of analyst all the way up to executive level. So a real mixed bag.

the Future of HospitalityIt is a mixed bag. Do you, in your your role, do you see anything in this segment of hospitality and investments, real estate investments, do you see anything on the frontside operations? Are you involved with that in any way perhaps?

Alexander ShawIn regards to frontside operations, I would say that's not my area, but that would be Ed's area

the Future of Hospitalityin regards to front side operations. I can only imagine it would help you to get a very, very clear picture of of the asset because it's two different things. It's the operations, and it's the asset itself. That's the that's the building and and etcetera. A 100%.

Alexander ShawA 100%. I mean, like, when when we're having meetings with, whether it be investment directors or CEOs or whoever whoever it may be, right, we we want to know the journey. We want to know the the theme of the hotel. We want to know what's important for the brand in order to match people with, you know, the right candidates who either, you know they're gonna see the vision. Right? And they're gonna add value. Maybe they're from a competitor of of a similar brand or something like that. Maybe they've they've been working on similar acquisitions or asset managing similar properties. You know? So 100%. One of the most important part of things of things is, look, what's the culture like?

the Future of HospitalityAnd that's not just the culture of the team that you're working in, but what's the culture of the hotel? What are you looking to adjacent? Identity. I can only imagine the identity of. Yeah. Exactly. And it's different in different places. You're now in London, so I can only imagine you are most of your clients operate in London. Is that correct? London. London. Even London, you have yeah. Go ahead. I was gonna say UK,

Alexander ShawEurope, and I've done a bit of a stint in The Middle East as well, so over in Dubai. So, you know, we're working with a few people in Dubai as well. A good thing like one of the things where we're seeing at the moment, especially after COVID, is the introduction or the push for mixed use. Right? Mixed use hospitality. It's kind of such a big thing now. It's kind of affecting the way in which we're finding candidates as well because Mick Hughes. I I heard that term before. Can you elaborate on that? Yeah. So it could be a hotel that's also incorporating other asset classes as well. So a good example would be companies incorporating coworking sort of flex office spaces.

Alexander ShawSo, you know, we're seeing the rise in, like, digital digital nomads at the moment. You know, that they want meeting rooms. If they're if they're going to a different city for particular meetings, then the hotel can offer them a place with Wi Fi and a desk to sit down and do their work without any hassle or they can book a meeting room within the hotel. And it's a really good revenue stream for the hotels as well, right, because they're they're adding a bit of extra value there. And there's some there's a lot of big players that are doing it at the moment. I think, you know, ACCOR being one of them. I think 12 I think there are 1,200 properties they have across the Europe that incorporated co working. Oh, wow.

Alexander ShawScandic Hotels as well. I think they've done it in about 270 of their locations. Curtin Hospitality is doing that on the operations side as well. Like, it's becoming such a big trend at the moment.

the Future of HospitalityYes. It is. Yes. I see it myself too, but I the the term is getting more popular and popular. So it's more diversifying the the hotel property itself, operations and to, what I'm guessing, monetize it the most. And it's also I think it changes the whole dynamic of the hotel. It's not just the hotel anymore, but it's indeed a working space, and it's much more dynamic.

Alexander ShawA 100% or or, you know, that's just one example, but, you know, another could be bringing in retail, but not just retail. Can add a bit more of a community. Right? So for example, a hotel in Rome or maybe a a smaller city, let's say, rather than just bringing in a a Starbucks into your hotel, have a look what's what's around the radius of the hotel. Right? Bring in the local community. You know, maybe there's a a coffee shop three two or three streets away from the hotel that does amazing coffee. Bring them in. Add that kind of retail aspect as well. And it I think it really adds to the the customer's journey and the customer's experience as well.

Alexander ShawAnd I'm seeing a lot of that at the moment even with the bigger players.

the Future of HospitalitySo that your your your not just your job, but the whole segment where you are in is kind of changing when it comes to appraisals, value, the value of the property, the potential of a property. And can I imagine that you I'm seeing you going to a property when you have to check it out for the first time? How does that work?

Alexander ShawYeah. So we do try and do that. Sometimes it's a bit difficult if it's, you know, in The Middle East or something like that, and they're like, you okay, nip into our hotel? We'll try our best. But yeah. It's a whole different market. Yeah. Even if it's not for the client, though, you know, we try and go to hotels all the time, especially when we're in London, just to get a feel as to how the market is, you know, get a feel of, like, you know, what's going well. Maybe we're spotting certain trends. We try and book as many meetings as we can within different hotels.

Alexander ShawSomething we're doing at the moment kind of on the side is setting up kind of quite intimate networking events as well within a hotel. So we're bringing kind of industry leaders, kind of just five or six, you know, whether that be investment directors, whether that be someone in hotel tech, whether that be someone from the asset management or operational side, sit them down. We'll have a chat, discuss the market, see if we have any synergies. It's all it's all about just speaking, speaking, speaking to the big players all the time and well, even even in the even the the little players as well, let's say. But people in the market, right, and getting to know sort of what the trends are and what people are doing.

the Future of HospitalityWhat is what is it that attracts you the most in this role? Is it that communication, the the interactions, the meeting of new people in big properties, small properties? I mean, I can only imagine that is a very dynamic place to operate in.

Alexander ShawIt's it's really exciting for me. I feel very, very honest, to be to be honest with you. You know, it's not every day you book a meeting with, I don't know, the the development director of Mandarin Oriental or one of the the top guys at KSL Capital Partners or you speak to the head of feasibility at Yotel or Hilton or wherever it may be. Right? Or you speak to family offices or private wealth individuals that have a lot of capital and they're like, look. I want you to connect me with the right people because I wanna grow a portfolio in The UK and Europe. How exciting is that? You know? That I can only imagine. It's crazy. Very exciting.

the Future of HospitalityAnd it's it's a very I think that's a very steep learning curve that you're going through also.

Alexander ShawI agree. New people. Yeah. I agree. I mean, I've had a couple of years to build up the knowledge now. Right? And I think one of the important things about us, I think Ed was a good example, is, you know, his background is in hotel operations. Right? So he already knows the ins and outs. So he knows what a company might require on the operations side. He he knows what kind of hotel tech is incredibly useful in cutting down costs or increasing efficiency because he's been there and done that. For me, I've been in the game a couple of years now focusing solely on investment acquisition and asset management. I spoke to every man and his dog about it.

Alexander ShawAnd on top of that, you know, I've, you know, I'm at the moment, I'm completing certifications with Wall Street prep and financial modeling and stuff like that, learning how to build financial models for hotels, which is exactly what my my candidates are doing in their day to day. So I think, well, you know, if I'm taking a proactive approach and actually doing it myself and doing what these analysts are doing, it's gonna give me a better picture as to what clients are looking for and also what's what's good and what's bad in regards to skill set of a particular candidate. Right? Because I I've been there, done that. I've had the hands on approach.

Alexander ShawSo yeah.

the Future of HospitalitySo hearing all this, what is your goal for the let me say for the next five years, maybe even ten years in this in in in this industry? I mean, you chose hospitality. We know that. I see that, and I I know the industry is so diverse, and there is a lot to do. And I and I and I think in your role, there is no no limit. So what is your ambition, your long term goal?

Alexander ShawMy long term goal is to be the number one executive search for hotels out there.

the Future of HospitalityOkay. That's not a that is not as okay. The number one executive. Okay. We

Alexander Shawwanna we wanna be the number one, recruitment company for hotels. And I think I I mentioned to you, you know, our our limits to be fair, we don't what we do is kind of expanded ever so slightly. Right? I mean, I think I said to you kind of last week, and it'd be good to share with with the audience is, you know, our network because we have such a good network. We have people approach us all the time that are saying, look. We're looking for investors for particular developments. We're looking for you know, a good one is we had a a really good European hotel operator have a meeting with us at the other day. And they were like, look. We're eyeing up a £200,000,000 hotel portfolio in The UK. We want some investors to come in to help us with it. Can you connect us with the right people? Now that's not necessarily a recruitment, is it? But with us being with us having the network that we have, we're able to assist in that. Or, you know, maybe there's some family offices in Dubai that have a lot of capital.

Alexander ShawThey're looking to grow their portfolio in The UK or or Europe. They can't find any trophy assets or trophy hotels. That's what they wanna invest in. We have sources that we work with that focus on hotel investment opportunities and off market opportunities all the time. We're able to assist with that as well. So because of the network we've grown from being hotel specialists, we're able to help with other areas as well. Right? Not just not just recruitment, but these areas too. And that's really exciting. So I wanna continue growing that as well as, like I say, becoming the the number one recruitment firm for hotels for sure. That's the end goal.

Alexander ShawI think it's it's difficult when it comes to recruitment because you said it's for the company, but I think at the end of the day, it's not really. I think a big part of it is self branding. A big part of it is, you know, you you'll find that a lot of times is, say, someone's looking for a job or someone's trying to find someone for their team, and they speak to one of their colleagues, most of the time, they're not going to say, oh, I think you should speak to this recruitment firm. They'll know. They'll they'll say no. I think you should speak to Alex. Why don't you get why don't you get in touch with Alex? Right?

Alexander ShawSo a lot of it is self branding. So even though you kind of you say, you know, that sort of business, it is, you know, it's a two way street, it's very much for me as well. I think, you know, outside of the business, even though I'm not planning on leaving anytime soon, it's definitely for me to be, you know, kind of that person that's in the back of people's mind when they say, we need we need to connect with the right investors or we need to grow our team. Who can we speak to straight away, Alex, when it comes to hotels? That's what I want.

the Future of HospitalityRight. Alex, one one last question. What would you advise someone your age, maybe even younger, who is looking for a new career or a career and is thinking about this particular industry? Is there any advice that you would give to particular person?

Alexander ShawIn regards to hospitality or in regards to recruitment?

the Future of HospitalityI think in hospitality. Recruitment and recruitment and hospitality. In hospitality.

Alexander ShawFine. Recruitment and hospitality. Well, I can start with hospitality in general just to give people a heads up. That would be, look, just go out and speak to people. Speak to people in the area. It's all about look. I've worked across all asset classes. Right? In real estate, everyone knows each other. I promise you. Everyone knows each other. And then when you niche it down to

the Future of Hospitalitya physical asset is the same thing. In hospitality,

Alexander Shaweveryone Well, that's the thing. Hotel in hotel, everyone knows one I was I was gonna say, you know, when you niche it down even further into a particular asset class such as hotels or hospitality, everyone bloody knows each other. So go out there, speak to people, and don't be afraid to as well. You know, I I see a lot of people where, you know, they'll make connections on LinkedIn, for example, and they'll be, oh, this guy's amazing. You know, I'd love to speak to him. Drop him a message. What are you gonna get? Know. Indeed. You're gonna get a no. But most of the time, and especially within hotels, people wanna talk about it. Right? People wanna talk they're excited by what they're doing. They wanna share it with others. They wanna people, the up and comers, to grow within the sector. Right?

Alexander ShawSo reach out to people for sure. Make sure you know your market knowledge because it's moving all the time, whether that be even in hotel tech or hotels in general. Make sure you know what's going on, who's doing what in the space, who's moving where, what companies. There's a lot of companies being set up at the moment, whether that be in investment management or asset management. Get to know who they are as well. But it's all about connections. I promise you. I promise you. Don't get me wrong. You know? You need to have the skill sets, but I think most importantly, you know, that they can be taught. Right? Connections can't.

the Future of HospitalityIt's about connections. I I fully agree. That's that's exactly what it is about. That is how you grow. Alex, it was great to hear you speak to hear insights, your experience, and your goals. Thank you for being on our show.