Make guests feel like roommates

the Future of HospitalitySo welcome to the future of hospitality. I'm Alonso Curie, and today I'm speaking with someone who's been redefining the guest experience in Rotterdam for over seven years. Berth Rava is the hotel director of roommate Bruner Hotel in Rotterdam, where guests aren't treated as strangers, but also as roommate. And he's also the chairman of the Rotterdams Hotel Combinati, who is helping shape the future of the city's hotel landscape. So, Biraj, welcome to the podcast. Can you maybe take us back to the beginning? How did you start your career in hospitality?

Burg de RaveFirst of all, thanks for inviting me. Yeah. It's been a while. I started hospitality basically by choosing hospitality hotel school and then started working in hotels from the bottom up, waiter, kitchen, front desk housekeeping, and then slowly was able to take several different positions in bigger companies. And the moment I started my I did a master in hospitality, and I thought that was the the start of a new chapter outside of the hotel industry, but it was just so much fun that I made after the master, I joined the hotel industry again and never left since.

the Future of HospitalityNice. Nice. So fun is really important for you because I also saw that you call hospitality hospitality at at Roommates. Can you maybe explain a little bit more, like, how do you define success in hospitality? What is your view on that?

Burg de RaveWell, I think in the end, hospitality is only about making, people feel truly welcome. And I think that's then also a success. Success is if you're able to, treat either your staff or your guests, really as, as as friends. That's where the hospitality is something our owner, Kiki Sarasola, thought of instead of the hospitality because he think it's more related to hospitals, which is not a good place to be. But in the end, I think defining the success in hospitality is about making people feel welcome. And we believe that the best way of traveling is by visiting friends. So that's where the roommates come from. So we see guests really as a roommate, but also, for example, colleagues as as roomies.

Burg de RaveAnd, you know, and if you're able to do that and not just say so, but make them feel that way, I think that's that's true to success.

the Future of HospitalityAnd it sounds like a success to me as well. We'll dive into that a little bit later. Before we do that, I I I don't see it a lot that somebody works so many years. You work, like, almost seven and a half years at roommate hotels. Like, what what what keeps you keeps you there? Because I see a lot of people, general managers, they like to you know, after two years, three years, they go to another challenge. So what what keeps you at roommate? What is your passion to to stay there for so long and probably even longer?

Burg de RaveWell, I think, first of all, because it's a great fit within the company. I feel comfortable. I feel a lot of trust. I feel that I'm able to make choices on our own with the team in the benefit of the hotel and in benefit of the company. And I think then, yeah, there that is kind of recipe for longer success. There's there's still a lot of potential, I think, in the in the brand, in the hotel, in the in the city. And yeah, it it just feels comfortable without basing yourself on routines. So the option to do things differently or to make your own choices or to take on projects, yeah, that that gives me a kind of feeling of of staying and trying to get everything out of it. Of course, it also has been tough years, preopening, opening, COVID, new owner.

Burg de RaveSo so that's also, of course, plays a plays a role. But I think also now having the option to do something for the the Rotterdam Hotel Cominacci in combination with the role I have in Bruno. Makes it a great fit,

the Future of Hospitalityalso to stay a little bit longer in this city and and trying to make a difference on different levels. Yeah. I get that. I get it because, honestly, that correct me if I'm wrong. The Bruno hotels, like, each hotel has its own kind of design concept. It's like his own kind of his own hotel vibe. So if I go to Bruno, I don't know, Madrid, it's a whole other not Bruno, roommate, but not Madrid. It's a whole other hotel. Right?

Burg de RaveYeah. So roommate is the company, basically the brand. And then like I said, we feel that the best way of traveling is by visiting friends. So the purpose is, you don't go to a roommate in Rotterdam, no. You go to Bruno. That has a completely different look and feel as, for example, Oscar in Madrid. And so we pick a location, pick the building, then see where it is, what's the the history of the building, what's the atmosphere, and then we build basically the personality around it. Wow. So we do photoshoots. So we actually have a face of the hotel. And in everything we do, we try to load it with basically that personality of that hotel, which means that if you go to Istanbul or you go to Barcelona or Rotterdam, you experience the hotels in a completely different way, but always in a kind of warm welcome design a one location, and that defines basically the brand roommate.

the Future of HospitalityNice. Nice. Okay. And maybe for people that don't know Rotterdam, what is your personality? Can you maybe talk a little bit more about the Bruno personality in Rotterdam?

Burg de RaveSo Bruno is basically the old ship captain navigating the sea. So there is a kind of combination of history and and future, which I think also very much fit the city like Rotterdam. We all know about the history of Rotterdam, but at the same time, now Rotterdam is seen as a city of architecture, and it has amazing buildings both for residential or office or museum. And I think that combination is also something you see here in the personality of Bruno. The history the history of the building with where we had tea and spices in the warehouse, and now the warm vibe of a Spanish hotel making making feeling making guests feel truly welcome. Think I that's a great combination with also FITZ Rotterdam.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Nice. It sounds like a very nice combination indeed.

Burg de RaveNice. And luckily, the city is also doing great over the last years. And so there's a lot of potential not only in the in the hotel, but I think also in the city, which is on the right track. Nice. Nice. Yeah. Rotterdam is being

the Future of Hospitalityinvolved in the last couple of years in a lot of ways. In a positive way. Yeah. True. And if you now we take a step back to what you said earlier, like seeing guests as roommates. Like, can you can you can you give me some examples? Like, how do you do that? Like We always, since the beginning, had people on number one. So

Burg de Ravethat means guests, staff, suppliers, and then in the second phase, quality, basically, the the the way you measure, how you treat those people, and then at the third place, money. And I think in a lot of companies also where I worked in the past, it's in the other way around where it's a lot about cost, it's a lot about revenue optimization, a lot about reporting, and which of course is important, but if you turn it around, that's the consequence, the effect of putting people in number one. And I think if you're able to give your guests or your staff the feeling of of really be welcome, be who they are, give them the responsibility also to act that way in connecting for example, with guests or with employees, and at the same time having fun, taking responsibility, then the rest will come.

Burg de RaveAnd, of course, that's easier said than done. But that mentality, I think, is is what makes the difference. And, of course, we also try to invest in IT in, for example, doing check ins online, but we will never go into a fully automated check-in where there is nobody at the desk trying to help you or trying to create that smile. Because for us, that's kind of key principle in in having that connection with with the guest. So in one way, it's kind of the concept. If you would go to your friends in a city, that means you know the best places, the best newest spots in town.

Burg de RaveAt the same time, if you would go to breakfast area, you will not find 200 cups which will look the same. This is a French play. It's also not the same, but I think the biggest part is that if you go to France, you feel comfortable from the first part. You want to be there and you want to express who you are and what you're you're trying to to see, for example, in that city you're trying to do. And I think that what makes is what makes a difference. And of course then how you measure that is, of course, a financial one or in quality or in reviews, etcetera. But that mindset really wanting to be there for a guest or wanting to create a smile, for me, that's the starting point and the the endpoint. Nice.

the Future of HospitalitySo the the human connection is super important for you guys?

Burg de RaveIt's it's it's everything. It also means being open, being transparent, and no prejudice. So for example, if we would go to a hotel together as two male, a normal question, for example, or receptionist would be, would you like twin beds? Something we do not want to ask because it's filling the blanks for someone who is in front of you. So that's also for me part of being open, being transparent, and really wanting to make them feel welcome without trying to fill the blanks for them.

the Future of HospitalityNice. Nice. So do you guys also like, the staff in hotel, do you also proactively reach out to guests, Or is this most of the time, like, reactive that they come to you, you make them feel welcome? Because if the human connection is so important, I I I guess that you also, like, proactive want to reach out to to the guest.

Burg de RaveYeah. Of course. Because then you can already have that guest come in your hotel with a smile. Of course, the more you know about a guest, pre stay and also the easier it is to make a connection because then, you know, what he or she is likes or what he's he or she is coming to do. But at the same time, that's also the hardest part because everything then you're trying to get a human connection through email or WhatsApp or phone or and and real life obviously works best. But, of course, that that's something it it all starts with making a reservation or even the kind of philosophy behind the brand, behind the hotel to showcase that even before someone books.

Burg de RaveAnd I think that whole process kind of needs to be aligned also in order to, be able to welcome the guest with a smile and let him or her leave with a smile. True. Nice. Nice.

the Future of HospitalityAnd it's just tough also, like, do they know the place of Rotterdam? Because if they are kind of a they want you out to feel that roommate feeling or to give that roommate feeling, they also have to know the city. Right? So it's also that you teach, like, new people. I guess that not everybody's is from Rotterdam, but I guess you also want to show them Rotterdam and, you know, teach them that the good places and show them around so they also have that Rotterdam vibe when they talk about it.

Burg de RaveDefinitely. And I think the the, more than half of the of our team is international. So that also means that they have the experience of coming to the city without knowing it in the same way, for example, as a guest would do. So we obviously stimulate going out and finding places, finding hotspots, and not just go with the mass. Our staff is is very different within each other, within the group. So that also means that one likes to go to a skating park and the other likes to go to the best new Michelin star restaurants to eat out. But experiencing that, talking about that with each other, trying to stimulate going out, visiting new collections, but at the same time, trying to collaborate with local initiatives.

Burg de RaveCurrently, for example, in this week, we have Rotterdam Art Week. So then we also try to collaborate with local artists to give them a place to do exhibitions, etcetera. That also creates a kind of connection with the city that we believe is important. We're not just a building and a hotel, and we're also trying to be part of, basically, that whole community.

the Future of HospitalityAnd I say, I just had a podcast, like, last week with somebody else, and she told me, and I really like that example, that sometimes people, like hotel managers, forget that the guest is not only coming to the hotel, he's coming to the city. So if he has a bad experience in the city, then he probably will will say, like, yeah. The hotel was not nice because the city wasn't nice. So it's very important to make the whole experience also the city to make it nice because when he had a great trip, that means that he loved the city and he loved the hotel. And when that happens, then it's probably also a potential of returning guests, etcetera.

Burg de RaveYeah. And and, of course, it also goes the other way around. If, everything in the city is great, but the hotel is terrible, then, of course, it was not gonna add to the, to the total experience. And I think that's something, which works quite well in Rotterdam because we have always really had to fight for all individual guests we had. Nothing comes easy in in this city, and we suits also the perspective and the mentality of the city to work hard for it, but also to make it worth and to make it worthwhile. Rotterdam has a platform, which in Dutch is called, which is basically being hospitable.

Burg de RaveThey have the cruise industry as you evolve, the taxis you evolve, the buses, transportation to really to see Rotterdam for tourists or business guests as one big experience and all the individual parts counts. And I fully agree that being a hotel is not just a business on its own, but it's you're related to everything which happens in that city. Yeah. Nice. Nice.

the Future of HospitalityAnd if we talk about I saw something. I don't know if it's still relevant, but you call it the honesty bar. Is that still Yeah. That's

Burg de Ravesomething we started basically in COVID period when everything was down and everything was locked locked, and we were not allowed to really interact with guests in the way we were used to, but also, yeah, that we really want to. One of the examples was the honesty bar. Basically, bar inside of the lobby, which is help yourself. Build on trust because otherwise it doesn't work. And that's something we did on a very small scale, but currently, we are doing that sale with a lobby shop. Same, but now it's it's a little bit more professional and also utilized with a an external company. But the principle is the same, build on trust. We provide twenty four seven shop in the lobby to let guest experience or use those products and services in a way they want, in the moment they want.

Burg de RaveAnd, yeah, I think that's a good fit to our hotel, to our brand, and to our services.

the Future of HospitalityBecause what does this really mean? Like, you you you give them trust, but does it mean that they can maybe I read something wrong, but they can, like, take a product and they pay for it whenever they want to pay it? Or how does it work?

Burg de RaveYeah. So we have a lobby lobby shop, which is filled with food, beverage, nonfood items. You can buy a bottle of water, but at the same time, you can also buy a gin tonic or a bottle of wine. And you can just take it, pay for it, and use it at any moment in time. And and that's on top of basically the service like breakfast, restaurant bar that we provide. This really has the peak moment between ten in the evening and two at night because then you see that, well, people either just want to grab something fast or take something towards the room, but at the same time, we also allow people to take that bottle of wine but drink it in the bar.

Burg de RaveAnd and I think a lot of these choices are very specific to our brand where we always try to say yes instead of no or trying to think of the negative. Yes, maybe it will cannibalize some on your bar revenue or maybe that one guest is taking an orange juice and sandwich instead of a full breakfast. But if that's what the guest wants at that moment, then I think you should be able to provide that in the best way possible instead of only thinking about the regular services. And and the other day, I heard someone gave the example on the you see a lot of green apples in the lobby in in a lot of hotels.

Burg de RaveAnd they are there as a kind of you can take it, but at the same time, they choose apples which look nice, but don't taste nice, so they last longer. So something which starts with the one to give something to the guest and add something changes into kind of efficiency product. And for me, that doesn't match. So it was about the the red apples and the green apples. I think it was Matthijs from you. Yeah. I saw a picture. Yeah. Correct. Correct. I saw yeah. He gave he gave that example, which I think is is is a 100% true. Why put something there

the Future of Hospitalityif, basically, you do not want people to take it? True. True. So you you flip it around and you say, like, take what you want. That that's first. Like you said, it's first about the people, and the revenue comes comes later. That's like the result of happy people.

Burg de RaveHappy people. Because it could also mean that if that person is not looking for a breakfast of €20, but only a juice and a sandwich, that he or she might come again to the hotel or extend his or her stay because we have that option. And, of course, this is something small, but I think that is in the bigger picture something which which counts. And and and and like Kike, who is basically the one who thought about that hospitality. Mean, happy happiness or hospitality, the way we call it, is profitable, as long as you you do it in a good way. True.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. We sometimes have to, not look so a short view. We to look at the bigger picture, and you see, like, okay. The guest is returning. He's buying another orange juice or whatever. And not only the short term short term KPIs because then you look at hospitality as like an Excel sheet business, and that's not the way it works, I think. No. And then you also get the rhythm of

Burg de Ravemaybe department heads or managers or or even hotel directors who are changing every two, three years because they are done of filling that Excel or filling that report. And luckily, we are able yes. Of course, we also have reporting, and we also need to be, cost focused. But it's it's in a different priority list. And and this also counts for bigger, if we do events of 300 people, We also say yes to someone who wants to bring her own catering company during these where you see that a lot of of our colleague hotels will say no. We have an F and B department, so we provide you with whatever we are able to offer.

Burg de RaveBut say trying to say yes to all those kind of requests is gonna bring you something, I think, in the long run. I totally agree. You earn the relationship

the Future of Hospitalitybusiness wise or guest wise. You earn the the trust in the relationship, and, yeah, that's what you want as roommate hotels. You want to to act with them as roommates. So that's how you do it, I guess. Yeah. Agree. Is there a guest story that that really reflects your vision of the hotel? Can you, like, give me some kind of a story that you say, okay. We had this story from a guest. He came in. He did this, and you guys handled it the way you did to reflect, everything you said.

Burg de RaveWell, what directly comes to my mind is is also one of the, the projects we, participated in is called Give Me Five, which is now called Room for Change, which started, I think, as an initiative during COVID while a lot of the hotels were empty, is to provide hotel rooms to economical homeless people. And I think we participated in the project. We had for, I think, three years, three or four rooms at the same time, which we provided more or less free of charge to, economic homeless people. I think that's something which really fits the DNA of the company, and also fits, what we feel is hotels and hospitality about. So that meant that we provided room, we tried to help out with creating a kind of safe place for those who really need it.

Burg de RaveWe don't get the stamp of being homeless because the whole team, except for some of the management team, didn't even know that he or she was in this position and was part of this project. But at the same time, it gave so much comfort to to those guests in that period of time having their own place again. Don't feel that they needed to find a place to sleep and eat every single night. And by providing that for three to six months, we were really able to help out in taking, the next step and giving basically a life back to to those guests, by something which in our experience is something very simple. True. Wow. Something we do every day.

Burg de RaveSo, yes, there's also plenty, I think, plenty of stories where we see guests coming in happy, leaving happy, or something which happens in the meantime. But I think also this kind of bigger projects is something which well, hopefully, more hotels are gonna do because they can really make a difference. Not for any customer or business people or people coming here to the city for congresses or whatever, but some someone also from the city. And and and those who need it the most, I think, are they are also super, yeah, basically, it was the best best fit ever in terms of a guest leasing.

the Future of HospitalityAmazing. Amazing story.

Burg de RaveYeah. Yeah. So hotels, yeah, enroll and and and also on on on those kind of projects, hotels can really make a difference.

the Future of HospitalityTotally. Totally agree. What an amazing story, And in regards to your role at Hotel, I have to say combination because sounds to a Dutch combination. Like, what do you guys do? Like, what what is the what do you basically do there? What what is the the vision and the goal of being together in that kind of group. Right?

Burg de RaveYeah. It's it's basically, we unify all the hotels in in the city in order to inform, in order to, well, try to work alongside for for major topics which concern the hotels, the city, the the the future of of the city. You know? Yeah. We we basically try to get that group of hotels one voice towards municipality to be enrolled in bigger projects regarding safety, security. But at the same time, we also try to we for the last two years, we came up with a program, which is called the Dachf on the Rotterdams Hospitality. So the day we organize in order to promote the whole hospitality sector to students or potential students or people who are looking for a job and are finding it difficult to to step in. And we organize a day where we open up the hotels over the last two years. We did it through a program, through an app, through a tour, through individual workshops, basically to highlight all the good things the hotels or the sector has to offer.

Burg de RaveI think being part of the RSA also gives an option to to address those bigger topics. Every hotel is struggling to get great team members, but at the same time, it's also difficult for one individual hotel to do a lot on education or promotion or you can only have a few trainees in your team and that's it. But by organizing these kind of initiatives by the whole Rotterdam hotel sector, you're you're you're able to make an impact. Obviously, we also try to be the voice, for example, for a smaller hotel, which doesn't have the option to to do that on their own. And that combination of currently, have 45 members of, let's say, that club.

Burg de RaveThe bigger international hotel chains are present, and at the same time, an individual boutique hotel of 10 rooms is also present. And that combination trying to unify, work alongside, but also get to know each other, I think it's a fantastic initiative where, luckily, I can be part of it and also trying to represent them in the bigger topics of the city or the area.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Nice that you do that. But don't you don't you see them as competition? Like, you you share, I guess, also best practices, and don't you see this competition? Like, I help this hotel to maybe get my guest to his hotel, or is it just me that,

Burg de Ravewith my competitors? No. I mean, of course of course, there is, there is competition in the end. We are all responsible for for our hotel and our business, and, we need to fill up those hotels. And at the same time, I think only seeing your hotel not being part of the bigger picture is is not gonna last and it's also not gonna be sustainable. So we we try to unify them in order to make the whole cake bigger instead of only making your own piece bigger. And that may sound very, ideology or, but true. It's it's especially, I think, in Rotterdam, that's also what is needed.

Burg de RaveIt's a city with a lot of potential, but at the same time, nothing comes easy. And the city in terms of popularity for tourists has changed a lot over the last ten years, but only because of the effort we put in. And I think the hotels are part of it, and I think the hotels will also be part of it for the future. So if we're able to to unify us, but at the same time also make a voice towards the municipality in terms of security or in terms of city tax or smaller topics like that, then, of course, I'm I'm I'm not focused on the competition, but at the same, like I said, we are making the cake bigger in general.

Burg de RaveSo yeah. I think not short short term

the Future of Hospitalitylong term is not short term. That's that's the a. Yeah. Nice. I like this one. It's a we have to make the route to demo spatility cake bigger. And then, if it happens, then also each and everyone's small part will get bigger because the cake is bigger. So that's Exactly. Yeah.

Burg de RaveYeah. No. But it also means that we that we need to be critical towards each other. And, yes, again, of course, we're all responsible fill fulfilling our own hotels and making the business work. But at the same time, we also need to understand that sometimes we need to make choices as individual hotels for the whole city or the whole market.

the Future of HospitalityTrue. True. Nice. And then maybe my one of my last questions, this podcast is called the future hospitality, so you probably know what I'm going to ask. Like, how how do you look at the future hospitality? Because there's so many things. I know that you the human connection is important for you, but a lot of things will happen with AI automation. And maybe even the new generation, maybe they even want less human connection. I don't know. How do you look at the the future of hospitality, especially in auto No. I think.

Burg de RaveNo. Of course, we also see a lot happening in in the industry, and we have always embraced technology, but in order to make that human connection even stronger. And I think that's that's the same, not only in in hospitality, but in in the total bigger picture. For me, hospitality will always remain about being able to make someone truly feel welcome, so both for guests or a colleague or your supplier, and that that will always stay. AI or other types of technology, even design is gonna help you facilitate that, but we'll never replace it. And and one of my my old leaders once said that an SOP is just a way to help you do things better on your own way.

Burg de RaveFor me, that's the same with with AI or technology or tools. Yes. Use them and use them in the best way possible because that can create efficiency or create cost saving or whatever. But in the end, it all needs to remain being based on on that hospitality feeling, of of making someone smile, making someone feel welcome.

the Future of HospitalitySo that that won't change. Nice. Yeah. I hope so as well. I hope so as well. Sometimes you see stuff, you know, robots and all kinds of stuff, but I think also the human connection is is the center, as you said, people first, and all the other things should be built on top of that vision, people first.

Burg de RaveYep. Yep. Yeah. But that also means we need to embrace that change, and we need to embrace that yeah. If the tools are improving, then let's use those tools instead of saying no and trying to be protective because that change could also work in a positive way for your team. We are using AI for several things, and that doesn't mean that I'll have less team members. No. I have time to do other things. I think that's that's the the way to go forward. Yeah. More efficient team members. Nice. With AI. Yeah. And in the end, the more time they can spend in actual making a connection, the better it is. So having efficiency on those procedures and reporting and the administrative part, that's something we will always embrace because we can focus and shift our attention to other things in trying to establish that connection or that true welcome. True. 100% true. And, Burk, is there something else that you want to add? It can be anything.

the Future of HospitalityIt can be about yourself, hospitality, about roommate, something else you want to add before we end this podcast? Maybe something you want to share that people should know? Whatever.

Burg de RaveEverybody should join this great hospitality. Like I said, we'll be organized with the day for for schools. I think it's a great moment to step in, to choose for hospitality related industry because there's so much fun and so much difference also in the hotels, in the type of hotels. The bigger international chains have fantastic opportunities, but at the same time, a small boutique hotel or a bed and breakfast also has a lot to offer. And so I think it's it's the more new joiners, the better it is. And in the end, yeah, I think it's just a very interesting and unique sector to to work on. So with pleasure,

the Future of Hospitalitywhat I'm doing. Yeah. It is true that hospitality sounds like a very unique and nice industry, but I have to say that I heard somebody else saying that, you know, when when things happen, as COVID or such as other things, hospitality industry is also maybe the first industry that get get hit very hard. So that's also kind of a how do you look at that? Like, okay. People I I guess that the younger generations also used to work in hospitality. COVID happened. They said, okay. Goodbye. And now they kind of kind of a a trauma to go back to hospitality. It was not like a really stable place. Right?

Burg de RaveYeah. No. But that's also something we need to take serious. And we we have been complaining about that not a lot of, people were joining us and that the schools and the classes of, let's say, of service were getting emptier and emptier. But at the same time, that's also the effect of not investing enough into those schools or those projects or making sure that there are role models. For example, in in kitchen, there's a lot of role models on TV and social media. I think it's time to do the same with front of house, that being a waiter. And I see it when I travel to Spain, for example, for work or for for pleasure.

Burg de RaveThe the the profession of being a waiter in Spain has a totally different look and feel than when it is in in The Netherlands. So, yeah, if they see that position as a starting point or a student position, then obviously, people are also gonna leave on the moment things get tough like COVID. But if we are able to change that perspective on the role, then I think people will also stay. And they also if we have something to offer, people will take that offer, people will stay. So I yeah. That's that's a challenge, yeah, I think for us. And I think we should embrace that instead of

the Future of Hospitalitytrying to argue with it. Yeah. Nice nice point of view. I never thought of it like that, but this is it's a good one. We have to have the role models. That's that's true. So

Burg de RaveIt's the only thing that work.

the Future of HospitalityBurak, we're we're out of time here. I really wanted to thank you for for your time and for your insight and for your passion for hospitality slash hospitality. It's feelable. We can feel that. So thanks for that. My pleasure.