De volgende generatie hospitalityleiders vormen

Anemoon SchepelI think we do a lot on self awareness and also self management. Resilience is a big topic, also within our school.

the Future of HospitalityWelcome to our podcast, the future of hospitality. My name is Arian Eichelbaum, and today our guest is Anemone Schappel, senior lecturer at Hotel School The Hague. Annemone, welcome to our show. Thank you. Yeah. Who is Annemone? Tell us, please.

Anemoon SchepelI'm a lecturer indeed at Hotel School The Hague, but I'm also a mother of two. I'm very passionate.

the Future of HospitalityHow old? Sorry. How old Six six and 11. Six and 11. Boy, girls? A boy and a girl. So Wonderful. You got the whole package. Yeah. Alright. Yeah.

Anemoon SchepelAlso, singer in a choir. I'm also playing in musicals, so I do a lot of things outside of hotel school as well. Oh, wow. Okay. They I think they're all linked to my passion is, yeah, really understanding different perspectives, connecting to various people. Yeah. So it all ties a little bit into each other.

the Future of HospitalityRight. So you are a lecturer at Hotel

Anemoon SchepelYou live in The Hague? No. I live in Hilforsen. So I live I live yeah. Hotel School school The The Hague, there are two campuses. One is in The Hague and one is in Amsterdam. And I sort of live in the middle let's say I need to go sometimes to The Hague and sometimes to Amsterdam campus.

the Future of HospitalityRight. Can you draw us a picture how a typical day of you look like at school?

Anemoon SchepelYeah. So actually because I'm really involved now in curriculum renewal and working on the new professional educational profile. I work also a lot from home. So I have and because I'm also the course coordinator for the graduation project, which is the final year project, I coach a lot of students also online because they're in various places around the world. I've got students who are in, for instance, in Singapore and Kuala Lumpur at the moment, also in The Netherlands, so I sometimes see them there. I think I think next year, it's going to change a lot that I'm going to be much more on campus because we are redesigning that we want to create a more sticky campus.

Anemoon SchepelSo we want to we actually take out the research out of the placement experience. We used to call it launching your career where the students both did research assignments together with their placement company. And now the research is going to be more challenge based learning for the industry, and students will work more around in and around the campus.

the Future of HospitalityOkay. So changes. Is that a typical post COVID thing? Because you said we I do a lot of online. Students are internationally located. That's gonna change. Is that because what I remember from back in the days, that that wasn't a thing at all. But things have changed, of course. And is that maybe a post COVID thing that more people are online? Well,

Anemoon Schepelthere was like an opportunity for us because we were already doing this, let's say, the the launching your career where the students did research and a placement at the same time. We were already doing that before COVID. During COVID, was actually an opportunity because we were going online so much more. So we did workshops online. We did more coaching. We did more social coaching, like peer group learning together. So that was actually a positive sign so that we could do that in a in a much better way than we did before. The downside was, and that was already before COVID, is that the students sometimes had lots of difficulties combining their bachelor's thesis, as they would call it, together with their placements.

Anemoon SchepelAnd I do think we wanna create more of a sticky campus because we were doing so many things online and because we saw, okay, we were losing that connection sometimes with students. So I think, yeah, it's it's maybe also a reaction to that. And, also, the effort that we put in at first because when we start year four, we do a minor, so which is a student's choice. And then we already have our hands on the students, let's say, and we connect to the students. And then, you know, have we would send the students away, and they still do their placements abroad. So they're still going to do their placements abroad at all different places. So that's still going to be the same. The only thing that's changing is that they don't have their bachelor thesis or their graduation work during their internship anymore.

Anemoon SchepelSo, yeah, that's that's going to change, and that's hopefully going to help the students with their study progress. Yeah. That's going to help them a lot.

the Future of HospitalityInteresting. So you studied at the hotel school yourself in another one at another And one, now you teach in The Hague and Amsterdam. What drew you back to education?

Anemoon SchepelWell, actually, when I was younger, I always thought, well, at some points, wanna do something with with education or learning and development. And when I graduated myself, I did a research project on learning and development. So that was also my own thesis subject and my placement experience, so I really wanted to go into learning and development. When I was working in hospitality industry in learning and development, I thought, yeah, it's really nice to train the staff, but it's always at the, yeah, the back end of operations. So operations has priority, and then you can do some training maybe on the job training or whatever when it's quiet.

Anemoon SchepelSo when I was training in hotels, it was always, yeah, something which was secondary. Right. And I really love to be in education where it's a primary focus, of course, learning and development. And working with hospitality students or, like, working with the hospitality industry still

the Future of Hospitalityhas my passion. So It's very dynamic. I think that's what attracts you. Right? Yes. Yeah. That's what I'm hearing. So you worked also not just in Witsa, you also worked with system like Oracle and micros, right? Yep. Yeah. How did that shape your understanding how hospitality functions behind the scenes?

Anemoon SchepelSo I, of course, knew operations already from, yeah, working in the in the in the industry myself. And then when I worked for MicroSphedalia, you really got to understand the back ends of everything. So understanding, understanding, okay, how does information flow from one to the other? What do departments need in terms of information to do their job in a good way and also make strategic decisions? So for me, have that that structure of information and communication really helped me to understand the hospitality business so much in in so much in a deeper level. Yeah.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Well, speaking about that, I'm thinking about advanced tech like AI. How is that being embraced by, for instance, you, the hotel school itself, the the hotels that you are connected with? How does that look like? Yeah. So

Anemoon Schepelwe we even have students that do a lot of research on that as well, so how to support hotels to use AI even more. We have also for the assessments of students. Right? And that's also why we're changing the assessments from having, like, this text heavy research project that the students need to write. It's more going to be, like, visual content that the students need to create and also proof of co creation, reiterative design processes to really create impactful solutions which are going to be beneficial for the industry. And we say, you you can use AI. So it's really good to use AI as long as it doesn't hinder your own critical thinking and your own, yeah, inputs. So I think you you can use AI a lot for brainstorming, even use it to help create things. Right? But but it needs to be your own critical thinking that's behind it.

Anemoon SchepelAnd I also think we need to be a bit wary about, okay, what kind of info are we going to put in that black box which is going out there. Right? So we don't wanna we want the students to keep their privacy when they do that. Yeah.

the Future of HospitalityThat's quite a challenge I can imagine because this is all new and developing so fast. I mean, it wasn't there when you were in hotel school. It wasn't even there probably when you work with the systems behind the scenes. Yeah. And now you are teaching marketing and communications. So how do you keep these subjects fresh and relevant for today's students?

Anemoon SchepelYeah. It's more thinking of assignments where we use AI to help the students actually grow. Use it as brainstorming tools. We also have, like, these I'm I'm working on creating my own AI agents because I get lots of questions on processes, procedures, things like that. Okay. Where do I need to find that? Why do I need to look? You know? It's all new. Yeah. Yeah. And then I wanna create my own AI agents that the students can first ask the AI agents, and then, you know,

the Future of Hospitalityif they don't So like an avatar. You're avatar. So it's like, oh, that is so cute. Avatar.

Anemoon SchepelAnd it yeah. It should enhance, let's say, the human experience, I think, you know, really, because I think we it would be great if we are, like, high-tech, high touch. Right? Where it's, like, high-tech, we really embrace the new technology which is out there, but we still don't lose that human touch because I think that human touch will never go away, especially in the human or the in the hospitality industry. You don't wanna be helped only by robots or, yeah, a digital format, but you really want to have that personal context as well.

the Future of HospitalityThe balance between advanced tech and still the human interaction, the human experience, memorable guest experiences, that's what what I like, and and that is what what I think that student need to understand. And a lot of hospitality work people in hospitality, that is their that is the essence of hospitality. It's that human interaction. Yeah. You will like what I have to share later on. I will just give it away. Right? It's called guestjourney.ai. It's something that I'll be working on in the back with with a business partner of mine Nice. Where we help hotels with personalized video, with a touch of AI to to create to to to achieve upsells, higher revenues, etcetera, etcetera. So that is the the fine balance because I think that's very, very important as well. I'll share that with you later on. It's very interesting. Nice. So about something else. You have been coordinating the graduation process for five years now. Yeah. So can you tell me what were some of the challenges and how are you keep refreshing those in this fast changing times?

Anemoon SchepelYeah. One of the challenges, I think, is for students to really see the graduation experience as part of their school journey as well. So what happens a lot is that they go on a placement or an internship, and they they get so invested in the company and sometimes in operations as well. And we really want to have them have a leadership experience as well, so that they take the leads either on a project or with people. And sometimes that's not possible. Not all companies have the notion of giving the students that possibility. And we have great companies that we work with that that do that. But students, yeah, they they and they don't dare to speak up about that as well. They really are, like, very happy to be in that company because it's, like, the perfect placements experience or the perfect company. It's all new. It's the first thing they see. Because Exactly.

Anemoon SchepelAnd so that is a challenge to really find time for the students, how to connect with school and really see this as a learning experience, also as part of graduation hotel school. And I think the second thing and and that's also how we dealt with it now is that we separated the research from the the placement experience that students did not find the time just to write, to really do their data collection, like their interviews and their surveys and their analysis. So that was really difficult for them to combine it, and they were really struggling with time management, and that was also causing some study delay.

Anemoon SchepelSo I think for about 20 to maybe 40% of the student population, this was a great setup, and they could really find their own mojo in it. But for yeah. Let's say 20%, it was really not a good setup. So those students were really delayed sometimes by a year or by one and a half year. And there was, like, a sort of in between group who struggled a little, but, you know yeah. So, yeah, it was was difficult for us to find that really sweet balance between, okay, we still wanna create, you know, impactful, meaningful solutions for companies and that the students work with and where they really can integrate it into their day to day life.

Anemoon SchepelAnd on the other hand, help the students in launching their career and being in have the the job itself and understanding the job.

the Future of HospitalityI can only imagine indeed because when you're being placed in a at a property regardless of what what kind of property, I mean, every single thing is new. They're young, so they need to absorb everything. There's it's a high demand from from the property and the people around them because they need to perform, they need to learn. There are so many things they need to do. So I can only imagine that there is a certain amount of students students that are being challenged, and it's good to hear that you you pick up on that and try to find a sweet balance in that. I think that's very important for people not to lose out, to get depressed because that is affecting your mental health as well if you cannot keep up and you need to perform at school as well. I see that. I totally see that.

the Future of HospitalityLet me go to the the leadership and human skills. So you've spoken about your passion for the twenty first century, as you call it, leadership and human skills. What are some of those core capabilities that students should master today?

Anemoon SchepelSo for me, human skills are really and I think the most important element of those human skills is really understanding various perspectives. Right? So it's not having your own lens that you see the world, but really understanding that other person's perspective. And that starts with self awareness. So I need to be able to understand my own context. I need to be under be able to understand where I'm coming from and maybe what are my patterns, what drives me, and be able to manage that as well. So be able to sort of understand it and manage it. And then the next step is, yeah, being aware of other people around you. What are the other perspectives, yeah, the other types of people Mhmm. And being able to manage those relationships with the people around you.

Anemoon SchepelSo for me, yeah, that's that's all ties back into emotional quotients or the cultural quotients, which I think are very much interlinked or even the social quotients. I believe so too. And so these these human skills are so important to how to deal with conflict, how to influence people, how to mobilize people to act for a common cause because the sum is greater than all parts, I think. So if you work together towards a common goal, yeah, and that is really where I see yeah. I hope to make a difference also with my students and where we can work together to create meaningful solutions for the industry, for organizations, for society at large.

the Future of HospitalityI'm glad to hear that's an important point that you addressed. I want to hear from you because you're not the first one that I speak to. I speak to industry leaders a lot and how they are changing their approach, indeed, more emotional intelligence. How is that different from when you were at school? Because it was this is very different from when I was in school. They didn't care about my emotions. You just needed to perform. So how did that change? I'm glad it's changing, but what is it how is it different from when you were at school?

Anemoon SchepelYeah. I think there's more focus now in today's society also on well-being in general. So and not only on the cognitive side. So I think when I was at school, there was lots lot of focus on cognitive abilities. Yeah. Critical thinking skills, creative thinking skills, communication skills. So communication, I think, is also part of the human skills, which is also still important. How how do you present yourself and how do you deal with conflict? So those elements were still important, but I think the focus is now more on, yeah, you're not just your brain. You bring your whole body and your whole self into something. Whole being. Yeah. Whole whole being. And so the the well-being aspect, I think, also in hospitality is growing a lot.

Anemoon SchepelAnd there's more focus on mental health on, yeah, on all elements that link to, I think, emotional and social well-being.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. So I How do you help students? Because emotional intelligence, which which which indeed is a fine line to mental health, how do you help students develop this?

Anemoon SchepelYeah. There are various ways that we do that. I'm not the only one, of course, involved. I think we do a lot on self awareness and also self management. Resilience is a big topic also within our school. So we're looking at, for instance, yeah, they do they use tools like Bergmann. I don't know if you've heard of Bergmann before, which is really a tool which you do a test on, and you see, okay, what is your regular behavior, what is your needs, and what what are you what's what is your stress behavior? So when you go into stress behavior, for instance, and it's really important to understand why you would do that, we do a lot of coaching.

Anemoon SchepelSo we help the students with regards to, yeah, any type of struggle that they have. And I think we do a lot on, yeah, where the students need to manage themselves in a good way. So they look at, hey. Where where do I struggle with? And that could be on a financial level. It could be on a mental level. It could be on a social level. And how can I create that positive mindset also? I think positivity is a really good way to do that, being grateful for things. For instance, we have, like, assignments for students on that. Yeah. And my personal take is really in that relationship management and focusing on, yeah, understanding various perspectives.

Anemoon SchepelSo I use deep democracy, for instance, as well where I start with the check-in where I invite all different perspectives. I use also language, deep democracy language, where you invite the, yeah, the minority voice, let's say, where you introduce maybe something and you say, well, maybe someone has another idea. Completely different. And do you recognize that as well? So you spread that alternative, and then you ask also at the end a question if the minority still does not feel in agreement with that idea or whatever. What what do you need to go along with this? And so we'll make wise decisions. So I use deep democracy. I use it in class with my students, but I also use it to teach students on how they can use deep democracy themselves to make wise decisions.

the Future of HospitalityRight. Well, now you've just proven that indeed you have a master's in educational sciences and focusing on culture and inclusion. So can you give a shine a little light how this has shaped your teaching today?

Anemoon SchepelYeah. So I've already been in education for almost seventeen years. So it's been a long time that I've been in education. I've developed myself continuously. So I'm such a big fan of lifelong learning. I learn something, I think, almost every day. Every day. You never stop. I agree. And it's and that really has shaped my my view as as a lecturer. So I started as an information and communication management lecturer, marketing and innovation, then I went into professional development, HR and culture. And now I'm at at a graduation in the graduation course, implementing the inner development goals, implementing those human skills, those leadership skills that the students needs, I think, which make them, yeah, better human beings. But now I did not answer your question, question, I think. I don't know if I did. How did no. How did the

the Future of Hospitalityyour your master's in educational science is focusing on culture and inclusion? Culture and inclusion. That's that's something that wasn't there when I was in school. So how does that shape you your teaching today?

Anemoon SchepelNo. So I did a master's in education when I was already working at hotel school, which is and then I really found my passion because I could do a master's in anything that was Mhmm. It was subsidized by the government as well. So it was really nice that people in education could do master's studies. And then I thought, do I want to specialize myself in marketing or in information and communication management or in HR? And I thought, no. I I really love education, and I want to become better at understanding how people learn, how organizations learn, what they would do in different countries on in education on various levels. So I'm I'm very excited about, you know, people that bring in new educational innovations and then look at, okay. How does that work now?

Anemoon SchepelThe same is now working with AI, how to sort of embrace it because it's there. It's not we shouldn't shy away from it. We shouldn't be scared. That's and then think of crazy ways of how to assess the students now because AI is taking over all the writing, for instance. Yeah. And really looking at and and I think what has what has changed from in education as well is that before we were lecturing, so we're really standing in front of the group and telling, you know, our story. Still love to do that. But From the book. Yeah. I Yeah. I have changed so much into that I'm I'm really a servant to the group.

Anemoon SchepelSo I'm facilitating more the learning process and really looking at, okay, how can I, you know, create an assignment before class, which already gets the students into the mindset of what we're going to do in class? How can I really make the students responsible for their own learning? How can I create more, like, a la carte kind of, yeah, more flexible education? Yeah. So these are things that I'm I'm continuously thinking of also when redesigning the courses, when working with the students. Yeah. I'm now also thinking, how can I include the students more in that decision process? Because we know about what's going on behind the scenes in terms of, yeah, what is going on with regards to trends on education.

Anemoon SchepelBut, yeah, the students are the ones subjected to what we think of. So, yeah, using focus groups to make sure that they also are part of that and maybe even co creation of Mhmm. Classes, putting students in the driving seats, so really making them responsible for a field trip, for instance. Yeah. You you are now responsible for this field trip. What do you wanna do? What do you wanna get out of it? This is the budget. Yeah. So approach. You put responsibility in their hands. It's Yeah. Yeah. I really want the students to become these lifelong learners as well, and that they're responsible, that they drive their own learning.

Anemoon SchepelAnd this is for me, continuously, in the back of my mind when I design the course is how can I make them responsible? How can I make it as flexible and as individualized as possible as well for them so they can really create their own development goals? Say, okay, how do I want to be evaluated on that? Mhmm. Yeah.

the Future of HospitalitySomething else about surface acting and deep acting. Different things. Yep. But what are the exact differences between surface acting and deep acting, and why is that distinction so important in hospitality?

Anemoon SchepelSo in hospitality, let me first explain the two terms. So surface acting is that you are in contact with the guests, for instance, and you're faking habit, you're happy or that you're have a smile on your face because you don't really feel it. You put up a show. You put up a show. Exactly. So it's and when you're really deep acting, it's really you feel it as well. So it's about, yeah, having those those feelings. And people who do surface acting, they get into burnouts or they get into yeah. It's going to affect their mental health. So people in hospitality, because it's emotional labor. Right? You're continuously with various people. You get maybe sometimes shouted at.

Anemoon SchepelThere's a lot of pressure in operations. There's yeah. You you need to have be able to have a good team around you. And when there are people ill or other things going on, then then you're often on your own. You need to do a lot of of work in front of that guest as well. So, yeah, it's it's a heavy burden sometimes, and then it's important that that people also understand the difference between that deep acting and surface acting. Because if you don't feel well, yeah, and you're you need to fake it, it's going to have a really negative

the Future of Hospitalityspiral, let's say, in your mental health. That have consequences will have consequences for your own mental health eventually. You cannot keep that show up. It's I'm glad you mentioned this, deep acting. I didn't know the term, but I was aware of the existence all along, even in my days in in hospitality. I'm more of the deep acting, and I was not really good at service acting. And me me me coming from Rotterdam originally, that was not a good match because we cannot keep our mouth shut. But anyway, another point I would just to highlight, I would love to do a a podcast roundtable session at some point with some students about certain subjects in this. So I just want to mention that because that will be interesting to learn from them how they look at certain subjects that are really stinging right now in hospitality.

the Future of HospitalityBut I'll come back to you at some point later about this. But finally, Anemone, what does hospitality mean to you personally?

Anemoon SchepelYeah. So hospitality to me personally is more than the industry itself or the act of serving others. So it's it's really about inclusion of various perspectives, making people feel heard and seen, have within any kind of organization. So I think any organization could benefit from hospitality and from the knowledge that we bring as hospitality experts. I think it's really about empathizing with the other, caring for the other. Yeah. You know, the word hospital, right, is in the word hospitality, and that's they also are caring, you know, within the the hospitals. They need to be caring and serving the needs of the people, but in a completely different way. So I really I really like that, actually, synergy between hospitals, hospitality, seeing it as a bigger whole where we are in in surface, let's say, of the other, welcoming the other, including the other, empathizing with the other in society at large.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Right. I agree. Yeah. It's all about the innate desire. That's what I always said, innate desire to make other people feel good Yeah. No matter how in hospitality. Animone, I I wanna thank you for being on our show. Thank you. It was really nice to talk to you and hearing your insights. Yes. Thanks for having me.