Van Michelinsterren naar bewust dineren

Syrco BakkerReally believe that people will, more and more select their hotel, restaurants, closing brands, with their values.

the Future of HospitalityWelcome to the F and B Advantage, part of the Fuebler Hospitality podcast, where we explore how dining concepts shape brands, experiences, and long term value. My name is Gabi, and today, we're going to talk about reinvention. What does it mean to move meters and meters away from where you were and start again with a completely new culinary story? Circa Bukker built a two Michelin kitchen at Piercy and then made a bold decision to open the new concept in Bali. He's known for his creativity and for always searching the next thing, and even when it's comfortable, he always dives into it. In this episode, we explore how concepts can be become both deeply personal and commercial scalable, and what happens when a chef turns philosophy into a business structure.

the Future of HospitalityStirko, for the people meeting you for the first time, how would you describe what your focus on the day to day book is?

Syrco BakkerWell, good question. Well, I'm a I'm a chef. I'm a cuisineer creator, and I want to create hospitality concepts, a restaurant, basically. My background is in the in kitchens that are fitting with a conscious lifestyle. So the well, we we did our aligning our values, working with traceable products, local products, and giving a platform to for the people behind the products, but also for the the team, the people we work with. So we well, we just try to make conscious decisions while providing a dining experience.

the Future of HospitalityAnd why the focus on the consciousness is because of, like, things that are trending right now, like like scalability, but also sustainability, for example. Is that why the local products are becoming more important for you?

Syrco BakkerWell, I've I've I felt always already connected with with working with the the products around the the restaurant. That's also what we did in in Gatzang with you see. But, also, we had to there provide provide an a dining experience that fits with the, well, that with the idea of how Dutch or Belgian people see an Michelin star restaurant, white tablecloths, a cattery, the best products from all around the world. All these things are quite predictable in the way. And for me, it's I want just to go or to refresh and to go a layer deeper. And for me, sustainability is about long term thing thinking, and that's about that's and it's super diverse.

Syrco BakkerSo that's long term term relations with the producers, but also creating development programs for our team, but also in sustainability, making choices how we do our waste management. Yeah. These things.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. And let's go back to the start because I think if people hear your name, they think of Bali, about Michelin Stairs or warts. But what drove you to into the kitchen?

Syrco BakkerWell, actually, my, my father was when he was young, was a chef. And afterwards, he worked in, on the hospital hospitality management school. So when the when the family is there, they always ask, oh, do you wanna be a chef like your dad? So I was, of course, like, when you're young, you don't want to be like well, want be like your dad, but I I didn't want to do the same thing. I want to do something different. But when I was young, I I started working, when I was quite young in in, strawberry farms to to pick strawberries, in in plant trees, in the supermarket, dishwasher.

Syrco BakkerAnd I was always curious of what the things that were happening. You know? So when I was a dishwasher, I was always, like, looking into the kitchen and asking how things are done and if I could help. And the natural way, I I moved to the kitchen.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Yeah. And and and that's curiosity. Is that something also that new chefs should have when they are going to enter this this industry? That's constantly, like, looking at things and and and renewing themselves in or, like, getting new skills in that way?

Syrco BakkerI think it's always very, very good to be curious in with everything you do, but also about everything because it makes you think in a way wiser. It also moves you forward, and you you never stop learning. Right? For me, yeah, I'm now, like, twenty five years, more than half of my life, in the kitchen or in the hospitality industry, and I keep on learning and developing. So for me, it's also, like, what I do now this year. Most probably next year, would do something different with the knowledge that I have have done because you're just gaining new knowledge and new information. And and at this moment, I just try to make the the best decisions with the with the information that I have now.

the Future of HospitalityAnd I know a lot of about things about you, and I know you're a persistent person. You did a lot of interviews to get to certain kitchens to get there. You did a lot of internships with different restaurants, like the most cool restaurants there are. But you are always searching that that new thing. And how did is that something you already had, or is that something you learned, or that's something that really needs to be in the industry for every chef?

Syrco BakkerWell, I think every every chef is different, and I also see now some chefs who just like how you call it again? They're just like then have never had, like, a mentor, but he just, like, started in the kitchen. And it also gives, like, a new fresh look on it. But for me, yeah, being curious going into a restaurant where they where you just purchase all your house, produce, produced products, and then you're like, okay. I'm I'm cutting this this this tube of boboa, frozen boboa. And but how is a boboa made? And I'm scooping this mayonnaise out of a bucket. But how is a mayonnaise made? You know? And then you go to to another restaurant where they make all these things themselves, and you move into Michelinza restaurant. And then also in a certain moment, you are, like, on top of of of the game working with the freshest products with, yeah, with with with on a high pace, high standards, high quality, and then it's also it gives a kind of drive, but also satisfaction to to make it happen every day and just to to perform, like, on a high level.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Yeah. And you're already performing on a high level a long time, and you were already really young when you were performing on a high level. If you look back to your younger self, and I know it's kind of cliche, but what would be, like, the advice? Like, what are the things that you learned during your years in the industry?

Syrco BakkerWell, what I well, I did I did the hotel management school, so I I I well, I was very passionate about the kitchen, but then I want to just be, like, in a way, like, wider educated. So that's why I keep kept all the options open. And then I kept on, like, working in the weekends and doing the internships and all my holidays and so on. And then the last year of of my of of the school that I did was was an internship, and I was in the Libri, three stars. And then I was actually planning to do a bachelor in the hotel school.

Syrco BakkerThen I really felt like, okay. I was supposed to be in the kitchen, and I can keep up with the with the team and with the with the guys and with the girls. So then I really decided, okay. I want to be in the kitchen, and I want to learn. And then, well, then it was also very helpful that my dad was understanding what's working in the kitchen means. And then he just said, okay. Learn from the best. So then I mostly worked in three star, restaurants. And, the different restaurants, and I think that's that's very important. It doesn't have to be like a three star restaurant, but just different kind of restaurants in different part of the world, maybe different different kind of approach.

Syrco BakkerI think that's important to, because that's shaping your signature in a way, and, you learn, maybe things that's that's that that you want to use and that are helpful for in the future, but also some things that are maybe not aligned with your vision or with align with your, with your standards. So then you could but then you also know. Right? So it's, I think it's always like a learning process. I think that's very important for, yeah, for everybody who wants to be in the hospitality industry to, work in different companies and do diverse kind of restaurants, hotels, just to see and to learn and to just also understand what's fitting with with your personality.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Yeah. And can you maybe, for example, describe a dish that truly presents your evolution of of of these years where you maybe say, like, this is my how I evolved as a chef and, yeah, how it changed over time your your favorite dish to make or even your favorite product to use when your dishes.

Syrco BakkerYeah. That's a that's a hard one. It's it's, of course, every every time in different well, a dish that I did in in UC was a nasi groin with shellfish from from Zealand and some seaweeds. That was really like well, I'm half Indonesian. My grandfather's from Java, my grandfather's from Sumatra. So I grew up with these flavors. So that was it's really like the roots, the the flavors where I grew up with, but also the place where I lived then. So that was a combination of of these things. But I've seen very much see a strong, development through the years. You know? And as when I was a young chef in in, I was yeah. I you could just can see in the kitchen that you are so insecure and you want to show off and you want to put, like, 25 elements in the dish to to showcase, like, hey. You see what I can do? And I can put five composte plates for a 100 people every evening on a dish. You know? I'm I'm I'm skilled to do that. You know, that was and and then during these years, these two thirteen years in in QC became more major and more confident, and we were looking more for simplicity in a way.

Syrco BakkerNow I think it's very well, we still like, we are two years open with with. And there, we also, like, well, finding our way. In the beginning, we did, like, Indonesian dishes, flavors that we want to, like, deconstruct or elevate in a way, but now it's still I think now it's very much product driven. It has to be recognizable. We want to really give give a taste to the product, and, so do the best preparation and and put some Indonesian influences in there and with the techniques and the and the and the signature and everything I know from from the the past years.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. What I love about about chefs is that, to be honest, it's like an art form that they're creating. Right? They're using these different products and creating an experience, something beautiful. How do you start that process? Is it for you? You you have this amazing products, or do you start with already in concept and then find the products that you can integrate in it?

Syrco BakkerWell, it's it's actually very different. But now here, the in Bali, the setup is is very, very different as well because I'll we do we do, like, every two months a jam session with our team. So we just make classic Indonesian dishes, so I learned a lot from that. It can be rice dishes, pepes, sotos, sambals, and so on. And this inspiration are sometimes also just all preparations I use in the dishes that we that we serve in the restaurant. I have a r and d chef who's constantly developing techniques and dishes, and and it's it all started with ideas, and it's some some creations takes take a year, some a week.

Syrco BakkerReally depends on, yeah. Just just have to be right, and and sometimes just take longer. But it's it's not really like, I don't feel that we really, in a way, like, following one structure. Like, okay. We do these step this is step one and then two and three. No. It just, just starts. And when we move into a to a new menu, Of course, we want to streamline more, and we want to create, like, concept around it and do some storytelling. But it has to start with just, like, creativity. And we can start from a product, from historical story. It can come from everywhere.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Yeah. And you're not only a chef. You're a leader. Right? You're you're leading your team. You're you also have, like, an important role with Curacy. How do you establish creativity within also the team and having that that synergy to to create an, yeah, a cool experience in that way?

Syrco BakkerWell, I I think it's it's very important to create a culture or an an a synergy where people feel because everybody has their experience and their knowledge. It can be from a family recipe, but can be also from different restaurants, can be from everywhere. So I think it's very important that we create an environment where people feel feel feel free, feel confident to give their feedback. And also to say, like, oh, you did this this duck dish. I I learned to make this duck dish in another restaurant in a different in a different way. Okay. Let's try it, and let's see what's what's what's better. But, also, somebody can say, oh, I have this family recipe for my grandma, and she always cooked it in this way. Oh, let's try it as well. Because I think I really believe, like, to create this this this this dimension, It makes the creation stronger because, yeah, I have some experience, but I want to learn. And and and I can learn from from my team, and I think it's it's very important to and I'm I'm, for me, it's also more refreshing, and and I I also feel it's Schenkelbaz is a story of of the people. Right? The people, the producers, the Schenkelbaz family, which is a team.

Syrco BakkerSo, yeah, it would be it's it's it's actually very, very nice when we when we can represent my my kitchen team and all the individuals in the menu.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. But there's also another side of the coin. Right? Your guys are performing on this high level fine dining experience and and and doing, like it's I I think a lot of people don't know if they are not in the industry in the industry, like, how high tempo, high performance it is. So how do you keep that that balance also, like, having having to lead the team, but also having the creativity? How do you balance that?

Syrco BakkerWell, it's it's a good question, but it's it's always finding finding a balance. Right? And and it's and and you're also always searching for for the for the right balance. And it can be every time different depending on the team, on the environment, on the situation. And, well, since I was 25, I was I was leading the kitchen at PC. So from there on, my development started, and I and I see every year how my leadership changed in a way. And there is I I feel now for me it's very important to have, what I say, like, to set the boundaries very clearly and create, a box where everybody can play.

Syrco BakkerYou know? And but still, I always feel it's important that that it had there has to be some leadership. Right? And it's also what what I feel when it's a busy service, when it's well, everybody's a bit insecure about, okay. What's what's gonna happen? There's so many people, and well, everything will be will will be will go in in into the right direction. Then I think then you have to show your leadership and say, like, okay. I will lead. Just everybody just do the do your job, and we get through this together. You know? I think I think that's and then then you you can't say like, oh, yeah.

Syrco BakkerEverybody's still at this and do whatever you want because then then it becomes a mess. You know? And so I think there, it's it's it's important to stand up when it's necessary. And for me, like, say well, set the the the clear boundaries and and and and and what everybody is for me, when the communication is right and everybody's honest, I think a lot a lot's a lot's possible. Really, lot is possible when but when, yeah, when things are not communicated and there are surprises and things well, especially if things are not going right because because it's not necessary, then it's then it's then, yeah, then I'm sometimes disappointed.

Syrco BakkerBut then also, I think it's it's always from from a leader's side, we have to question yourself. Did I do everything to because it's very easy to blame your team or blame your team members or whatever. But I think first, you have to question yourself. Okay. Did I do everything to, to make sure we we made it right? You know? And and if you can improve there with another briefing or training or extra communication moments and so on. Yeah. Then you have to just Yeah. Just implement.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. I I love that. Like, communication is key if I hear a story and having those bound boundaries. And and a sandbox you you'd sandbox, but I was, like, literally thinking about a sandbox where they can play in and and and have these new ideas. But is that also, like, what separates a a great chef versus a great hospitality leader in in a sense? If if you own a restaurant and you do everything, it's a different role than if you are only in in the kitchen that way.

Syrco BakkerYeah. Of course. Of course, it's only it's it's a it's a different role for sure, but it's also it's it's in the in the end kind of the same because when I did my internship in Liberia, I wasn't a certain moment, like, I wasn't in the pastry. And I I was well, I was taking some responsibilities. But then when things went wrong, then the chef or a chef looked to me and told me, like, hey. Things were not not right tonight or you dropped the ball a few times. Well, my teammate, he was dropping the ball, making the making the errors of the failures. So then also, like, I was like then I learned very fast. Okay.

Syrco BakkerWhen something is wrong in this in this section, I'm the one responsible, so the seniors will speak to me. And then I can, yeah, just leave it like that or also tell my team again, like, hey, guys. Yesterday, this was good. This was not good. Pay attention there. And this is now, I think, with with the same. Okay. We go to lower season months. Share the share the your your your your feeling, your worries, maybe, your opportunities. So everybody feels in the way, like I have everybody has some understanding what we're going through as a company.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Yeah. And and I think you have a lot of responsibility already when you were really a young chef at 25. And what I'm really curious about is, like, what's the risk here? Becoming an head chef at 25 or moving to Bali and start from scratch?

Syrco BakkerThat's that's a you you you that's a very easy question. I think for sure it's it's more risky. Because when I was 25, I just some people say, okay. Was it too young? Yeah. Maybe it was too young, but I I had nothing to lose. Right? So I just learned by doing. I made mistakes. I learned from it, and I moved on. And, well, having a kind of reputation and then put it behind you and start up from scratch, like, in the different different country, different people, different products, of course, it's it's much more risk.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Yeah. What surprised you the most about yourself during that transition? Like, leaving everything behind and going into the in not only a new country, but a whole new continent.

Syrco BakkerYeah. Well, it's well, to to to clarify, for me, it was really after thirteen years BC. I was like, okay. Let's show you move to the as a, as a chef, you just make your logic steps that's, that's that every chef makes. So you go from to CDP, to sous chef, to head chef, to executive chef, and these are all all logic steps. But it doesn't mean that it's really like, that you get more energy out of your job, or it doesn't mean that you, sometimes you go past your, the essence why you became a chef. So from there on, yeah, from from UC with the two stars, yeah, then the second step is maybe three stars, but we push ourselves in a kind of environment and method that is, maybe not anymore, like, feeling the connected with me. So then I was like, okay. Can we shall we do something continue with something that is that how it's supposed to be in the culinary world, or is it now time to cut and then and to to do something different, of course, in different environment. I really needed it because sometimes you need really need to because I really believe if if I would, oh, open a restaurant close to Patzanto or in Netherlands Of Belgium, I would say, oh, you have a new signature, and I do something different and blah blah blah. But you know the gas, and you know what works. So I think automatically you you're going into the same direction again, and then a few years later, you just do the same formula because you know it works.

Syrco BakkerSo from from that side and and, yeah, I think it was a good moment to to challenge myself, to just to jump in the deep and just really, and also, well, reinvent yourself in a way. And, I really believe because of this for me, it feels like a a sidestep to make again, like, 10 step forwards instead of an an and a route or a trail where you're on where you can still make five steps for for one, but then you are on your limit. So it feels like a sidestep to to make again steps for one and and do something really that's close to my values and my vision.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. I love that. It's like and and and and Pat, that not everybody is taking it. It's just so different and innovative and and sparkling that creativity. What I'm curious about is you're starting this new concept from scratch in Volley. How do you get the word out to new customers to get in a restaurant? How did you do the marketing for that?

Syrco BakkerYeah. Well, it's it's it's a different market, so it's for sure totally different how how you have to activate it. And at the beginning, it's just well, I think, yep, we we we looked closely where our unique selling point point is. So they're not really we should have start ships in Bali. So that's was something that's special. So that's also what we communicated a lot. And then it's just, in a way, getting the word out in every in every kind of direction. And that's that's that's what you do the first year, to do as much as possible communication, but also create well, get data and see, okay. This worked. It didn't work.

Syrco BakkerAnd then the second year, you well, you try to direct a bit more create a bit more clear direction of of your potential guests. And, of course, in Netherlands and Belgium, there are lot of potential guests, but we cannot fill up our restaurant in the whole year long with with people from Europe. So our focus market now is Jakarta, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Australia. So that's probably and then we do just that. I really believe in in a certain moment, in the beginning, you just get the word out, but then you do it through your own channels. And that's in a certain moment, it's quite limited.

Syrco BakkerThen the second phase is finding partnerships, corporations with hotels, with restaurants, with with all kind of things and combine your communications so you can get in a way a bit wider, but also with people or companies with the with the with the same philosophy. So it's it's it's it's it's also building the rent in a way. And now we are, like, the third year. We now we are focusing on on the markets where we feel like, okay. This is now we after two years, we understand, what are where our our potential market is, and then we really, put a focus on on one market and, try to penetrate that as much as

the Future of HospitalityYeah. And would you say, like, you know the market or you and the team know the market because in those first two years, you were collecting data. You were seeing what works, what didn't work. Is that why you now have that perfect product market fit in this moment?

Syrco BakkerAt at this moment, we we think that we have the perfect market. But most probably in two years, we we will we look back and we say, oh, yeah. Look at us. We thought they are we were doing something here, but it's it's at the end, different. No. It's it's I think it's it's what I like very much the process of doing things, collecting data, seeing what works, and then make a plan, shape the plan, and redirect a little bit. And then, with the team, continue with with taking our our actions. And I think from for us, it's very for me, it's very important with with my management team that we, take control of our own base. So we really need to make sure that we're not, like partners where we work with are affecting, our pace with with, slowing it down.

Syrco BakkerSo we, for me, it's very important that and and just that we take all the necessary actions and that we after a month or after a quarter of the year, we cannot blame ourselves that we didn't take necessary actions. If it doesn't work out and if the results are not what we what we hoped for, then we shouldn't be regret actions that we didn't take. Yeah.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. So fully stand behind your idea and philosophy and and go for that and and believe in what you're doing. If you like, how do you balance the storytelling, the product philosophy that you have with the reality of the foods and costs and the payroll?

Syrco BakkerYeah. First of all, for me, of course, I want to do something with with with purpose and with create a dining experience that fit fits with a conscious lifestyle. But at the end, we are recreating a dining experience. And the dining experience, the feeling that we want to create at the end of the of the evening is that people feel like, okay. I want to come back next week, next day, next month, next menu because I had a great evening, good food, good drinks. So that's that's the that's that's the main focus, and that's the main goal. And then when we can, in a deeper layer, create some consciousness about decisions that that they will make, about things that they can consume or about the ways how they will treat it, that that's extra.

Syrco BakkerBut I'm not like I don't want to people are coming to a restaurant and not to a lecture. They don't come to school. They they don't. So that's and and I think that's that's very important to to understand. And then it's, always finding, like, the balance of creating a healthy company because we have so many ideas and dreams and, things that we want to that we want to create or that we want to accomplish to but beside that, we also have to build, like, an an healthy financial, healthy company. So that's always, like, finding the finding the balance, and that's that's why also now, like, okay. From for us, it's very important just to have a full restaurant.

Syrco BakkerYeah, from the marketing side, that's why we also, like, very much, like, focusing now on on the on one market and activate that one because we feel like they are okay. That's that's the market where we can that we'll fill up our restaurant. And from there on, we can make all the steps and all the we can, I think, fulfill our goals and dreams on on the sustainability side?

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Super interesting. And and you're talking about activation, right, in in getting the people in the restaurants. What was one way of activating where you were maybe first a little bit like, I don't know if it's going to work and really was surprising that it worked really well? Yeah. You have maybe an an example of that.

Syrco BakkerWell, we we do a lot a lot of things, so it's and I always really believe that and I also saw it, like, in The Netherlands because I had this this sugar liquor brand. And then sometimes you were on this on the on the fair, and then we fought, like, okay. We paid, amount of money for a stand. And then and then after two days, we were like, there was really nothing. You know? There was, no context, no sales. And then there was two months before festive season, and then you got ordering of 2,000, gift boxes, relationships, gifts, of somebody that's that we met there on that on that fair. So it's I think always every action that you take, you will something something will will will will it will affect something.

Syrco BakkerEspecially these days, I really feel like, okay. You have to be in top of mind of the of the people. Everything is moving so fast. So it's like, yeah, if you see one time, two time, I've I heard, like, after seven times when you see, like, a brand, they start taking action after seven times. So maybe this small event that we communicated on that that was, like, the the seventh time that they that we are on top of mind. So people make the they call the action to make a reservation or to do an event. But things to yeah. Well, we we we had we had one time, like, a like, a micro influencer.

Syrco BakkerIt was it was, like, not, like, millions of followers, but, this amount of followers was still, like, in this in this, how can I say, in this scale of, being credible? So not like every post, like a branded post that we invited for a food dinner, and then we had, like, I think, 20 reservations because of this this person. So, yeah, that that that that that's that's really surprising because it's also, like, a a new way of of promoting a restaurant. And if you then find, like, the right person with the right audience, and that's that's creates, like, a business for us, yeah, then it's surprising.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. And the top of mind thing is really interesting. Right? Being on top of mind. And and and if people are thinking, oh, I want to go out or I want to celebrate my anniversary or something like that, that they think about your restaurants. And I think that's the key. Right? Then when a person wants to go out to eat, that they the first thing they think about is the experience they had at your restaurant.

Syrco BakkerYeah. Yeah. Totally right. And it's it's for us, it's what what we see very well in in Bali is that when people book their tickets, then they make a reservation. Or when they they move to Bali, then they make a reservation to really prepare for the for the holiday or for their trip. And then there's people who drive into Ubuds or people who are chilling at the swimming pool, and they feel like, oh, it's 04:00. Oh, we should eat somewhere tonight. So this really, like, these two audiences. And the last one is very tricky and very hard to, to attract and to catch in a way. So that's being constantly, like, on the radar.

Syrco BakkerYeah. But it's it's it's quite challenging.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Yeah. No. I totally get that. Would you say it's also maybe even easier to get people that already experienced, like, the whole thing to get them back is maybe easier than getting the new guests that that didn't heard of of it?

Syrco BakkerYeah. But we have a lot of tourists who are visiting us. It's but we we see the where the word-of-mouth is is always the strongest we've always the strongest. And then when when well, and then that's also the our goal to create ambassadors. Right? So people who are who come to our restaurant will feel like being an ambassador and everybody that they see on their on their holiday. And they hear that somebody's moving to Ubud, and they say, you have to go there because it's really great. Yeah. That's that's the best the best way of of, yeah, of doing your marketing.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. 100% people that are your biggest fan are the best ambassadors to have for a restaurant. I'm curious because you're a curious person, always learning, always looking. Are you happy where you're right now? Like, are you there where you imagined to be two, three years ago?

Syrco BakkerYeah. But well, are you happy? Yeah. It's it's I always have, like, my goals in mind, and I always have things that I want to accomplish. But it's yeah. Well, I'm I'm I'm I'm very happy how things are going, but I think we also have, like, still a lot to improve. So that's yeah. Well, I think I think we of course, I'm happy with where I am now, and I'm very happy of the step that I made. And I think very much from creative perspective is is is the right step. And, yeah, beside that, I think we also for the next five years, I still have a lot of, things that I want to accomplish.

Syrco BakkerAnd it doesn't have and then well, there, I think the focus changed of of of having, being chef of the year or, having a Michelin star or something like that. I think now it's more my my goal is to create hospitality concepts that fit with the conscious lifestyle in different part of the world and on different levels. Just want to show because, like, in in Bali, what we do here, it's it's kind of our our flagship. But yeah. And then a lot of people can say, oh, yeah. But in Bali, yeah, of course, you can do it in Bali. And I just want to showcase, like, folks at the moment, in the deserts, in The UAE, we can still take our steps that are close to our values, traceability, nature, and transparency.

Syrco BakkerAnd, of course, not a 100%, but we still can take our steps and hopefully be inspiring inspiring other restaurants in The UAE to also build these steps and not saying, oh, we are in a desert. We cannot do anything, and we have to import our products because nothing is going here. Mhmm.

the Future of HospitalityWow. Yeah. I love that. And I I think it's interesting that maybe fine dining is too focused on awards right now, and it should be more about also the lifestyle and what you're presenting in in in that way. Would you also recommend new chefs to take this step that's not only only focusing on on the awards and on on on the stars, etcetera, but also really looking inwards and seeing if they're doing things with the purpose?

Syrco BakkerWell, I think everybody should do what they believe in and and what they're what they feel good with and and really stay true to that. I think that's that's very important. But for me, well, I really believe, like because when I was in POC, there was well, we we were connected with a good region, and we worked with local suppliers. But then my interns from Portugal, they asked me, oh, but this this farmer, how is he farming? And what are you doing with your waste? So very asking very, well, specific questions. And I was, like, well, quite surprised as, wow. They they are really, selecting the place where they live or where they where they live and work with their values and with their lifestyle. And then I thought, like, okay. If this is oh, these guys were around twenties.

Syrco BakkerBut if this is developing in the same way, then in ten years, these are our guests in the restaurant. And I really believe that people will more and more select their hotel, restaurant, clothing brand with their values.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Yeah. I love that. It was actually a question that I wanted to ask you right now because we are the future of hospitality, and I wanted to ask you, like, where are we going? But you took that question from me. But I'm curious, and that's also my final question about the future. What kind of chefs or leaders does the industry need more of at this moment?

Syrco BakkerWhat what do we need more? Well, I I think it's it's it's a good one. What do we need? I I think all kind of leadership we need, of course, but it's, I think in in, for example, in Europe, I think leaders who are supportive with the goals of all the team members. So what what we are doing and what I also did in in in POC, just creating development programs. And here, I see very, very clear in in Bali. Some people just are happy with the job they do. They don't want to want to to promote. They would don't they just want to stick with their responsibility because they're happy with it, and they don't have too much stress.

Syrco BakkerGood. Fine. Yeah. We have to respect that. And and before in in in in the Western world, I was more pushing everybody to to make steps in their career. So I think that that's also good, and and that is also, well, great stability in your in your in your company. But beside that, if if somebody wants to be a sous chef or a head chef or whatever, yeah, just support them with with with reaching their their goals. And well, I think it doesn't mean that's, for me, that means just, okay. I just ask them, one of the team members, okay, what what they want to achieve, which steps they want to take, which timeline, where can where do you need my help or support.

Syrco BakkerAnd then I just like support if they want to learn technique or learn something of of managing a kitchen or learn something else, fine. Or they want to learn something marketing, do cross training. Yeah. Just being supportive in in but the team member has to be in charge and is responsible for their own dreams. So it's not that I think a leader shouldn't shouldn't hold a hand all the time. We just should remind sometimes like, hey. I thought that you want to be this serious and focused sushi chef. Maybe maybe you have to focus now then because you want want to reach this goal. It's not my words. It's your words.

Syrco BakkerBut I think I think that that's that's yeah.

the Future of HospitalityI think maybe that's it. I think that's a lovely goal, like, having more of mentorship and and and, like, having that responsibility. Circle, I I really want to thank you for this really cool conversation about different things about responsibility, but also about innovating, reinvention, and and and local products. I wanted listeners also if you want to see the video or see clips of this interview, follow us on YouTube. You can listen to this on Spotify, and I wish everybody a really nice day. And thank you so much again, Serko, of joining the Future of Hospitality podcast, the FFBN Advantage.

Syrco BakkerThank you very much for your time. It was fun to to join this podcast.