Gastfreundschaft mit Seele, nicht nach Drehbuch

the Future of HospitalitySo welcome to the future of hospitality podcast. My name is Alon Skouri, and my guest today is someone who understands that unforgettable hospitality comes from how you make people feel and not just what you offer. So Angelo Barcelo, general manager at TiVoli Dueler Amsterdam, has spent his career turning pressure into performance from kitchen floors to to also high expectations, always with the guest in mind. Angelo, it's really great to have you here. Can you take us back to the beginning? Like, your background, like, how did you start in hospitality? I would love to hear more about your career.

Angelo VassalloSure, Alan. First of all, thank you very much for inviting me today. It's really a pleasure to be here. Yes. Indeed. Now it's, almost twenty years of hospitality background. Everything started with the school because I'm coming from Sicily. At that time, we were saying that the only way for economical success in Sicily was the tourism. So, therefore, I started hospitality management in in Italy. And since then, then I started to move from hotel to hotel, first in Italy, then, of course, in Germany, then in Austria, then finally in the Barcelona where I spent, I will say, a really important period of my career. And then in the last year in The Netherlands where I'm currently as a general manager, as I said, of of the Tivoli, Dulen Amsterdam. So it's been a part of twenty years, which have been full of learning experience, full of patient, full of the knowing new people, new culture, still enjoying it. As you can see, I was moving from country to country, and this is what I'm really loving in in this hospitality world.

the Future of HospitalityNice. Nice. I see that you smile. So you do it with passion, I guess, and that's one of the most important things, I guess, because you're also Italian. So passion must play a big role in in what you do. Right? Otherwise, it doesn't work.

Angelo VassalloBut people say that the Italian are too passionate, and that maybe therefore, we are starting to discuss with them. So sometimes we are a little bit loud as well when we discuss. But, indeed, the passion is the basic of what you do, in my opinion. If So you don't have passion for it, especially in the hospitality world where sometimes you are facing a really long day of work, if there's no passion behind, then it will be really hard to to get until the end of the day or the end of the week or the end of the month sometimes. So it's I feel that it's a kind of salt to give a little bit of taste to the whole experience. So I'm really patient of what what I'm doing.

Angelo VassalloI'm really love what I'm doing, and I try always to put that passion as well my conversation with the team, my conversation with the with the guests, with the suppliers. At the end of the day, if you don't transmit the passion, then the people will not feel it, and then maybe they will not really realize what what is behind that smile that you were speaking about.

the Future of HospitalityI totally agree. That's a that's a nice one. You have to pass it on, the the passion, to the other persons. Because I saw your LinkedIn headline, it's like that you want to create memorable guest experience, but you also said, like, by inspiring your team. So I'm kind of curious, like, how do you do that? First of all, create a mineral guest experience, but more importantly, how do you inspire your team to to do it? Because I think they have to do it, not not you, of course, because they are guest facing all the time.

Angelo VassalloYeah. Indeed. I mean, they are especially the one who are on the floor. And, when it comes to memorable experiences, indeed, not only for the guests, but also for for the team at the end of the day. In this case, of course, it's really to just meet the kind of passion and what needs to be done on on the floor. I can give you one example as well, one particular example when it comes to the team and when it comes as well to the guests. And, actually, today, we have a new team member starting in our team in Tivoli, and she was working with me in the past experience in Amsterdam as well as now And she was a completely surprised because the first day that she started and we had a better time more than 160 employee, I knew already the name and knew already who she was. So she was surprised that as a financial manager at that time, I was fully aware about what she about who she was. And I think that when it comes to the team, you need to give a sample. If you want your your team addressing your guests by first and last name, then you need to do the same with them. And then to show them that in in in a factory investing time to know as well the background, who they are, why they're here, what they need.

Angelo VassalloAnd therefore, they will do the same with the guests. So for me, it's always this inspiring people is leading by a sample. It's a kind of common rule that, of course, I feel that there are books and books about it, and a lot as well of people speaking about it. But then it's being on the floor and show them the way and show them that you are there for them. Them means the guest needs as well, of course, the employee. Show that in difficulty moment, you are not behind your desk. You are indeed in the first line together with them to try to solve what's happening and then to make the best out of it. So the same is for the guests. If you show that you have a genuine approach, which means that you are really caring about the experience that they are leaving your hotel, they they really appreciate. Because at the end of the day, this industry is people for people. I mean, of course, you can have the nicest hotel, the nicest luxury hotel of the world, but if it's not backed up by a really nice service and this feeling of I am here to serve you, then, of course, it's just an empty box, I would say.

the Future of HospitalityYeah. That's everybody is saying that indeed. So I I totally agree with that one. But how do you make it, for example, memorable? Because that that's that's kind of what what everybody wants. Right? Okay. You have you can have a nice experience, but how can you make it memorable? So how how do you do that?

Angelo VassalloYou need to make some studies. I mean, whenever your guests are arriving, need you need to research a little bit about them, and you need to get in touch with as well a little bit before. What we do with our VIP is, for example, we always send the kind of a per hour email where we ask some questions which are not the classical one, like, for example, arrival time, this kind of stuff. This is a classical question. But then start to go a bit deeper about what you're going to do in Amsterdam or how we can help you in that in that in the sense of, usually, what do you eat? Do you have any special requirement for that trip? Are you celebrating something?

Angelo VassalloAnd then, of course, then you see that this this kind of building a bridge with them. And once that you build that bridge, then it's easy to create the connection because then you know what they are looking for, why they are here. And then, of course, when you are welcoming them, then you they put as well a face behind the name that the brother emailed. And, of course, it's kind I feel that it's it's in the past as well of the hospitality. I mean, especially, if I go back to my Sicilian island where I come from, know, having a guest at home, meaning open, let's say, everything that you have for them. And this is the same in hospitality. So give them whatever they need to make that stay really an unforgettable experience. And whatever they need, this is actually what they were looking for. And you can just know it, just asking, and discovering with them. Nice. Nice. So that human connection

the Future of Hospitalityand proactively reaching out to guests, that's something that you really do at Tivoli. And I guess how those those work?

Angelo VassalloYeah. I mean, especially at the Tivoli, it's a small boutique hotel with 81 rooms. So our employee, they are really specialized in getting this kind of connection. More than 50% of our guests, they are really they are coming from US, and they know that The US people, they really like this kind of personal connection at the end of day. And if you see that the view that we have in different social media, you will see that we are able to get that kind of connection. So it's it's all about the connection that you can create to them. And, honestly, as I said before, we are in an industry which is made by people. So which means that the percentage of mistake can be really high, but it's always how do you react to that mistake, how do you make it right, and how do you give this perception to the guest that it was not for bad faith, but it was a mistake for something which went wrong at that in that case, and then you want to make it right. So this is for me the basic of hospitality, I would say. True. True. And do you see, like, any kind of challenge that I I know that the younger generations, they they love their phones. They love their screens.

the Future of HospitalityLike, they find it sometimes kind of difficult to to proactively reach out to guests and make that small talk. Like, of course, you can talk about the weather. You can talk about the flight, but the real connection comes from a little bit more than that. Right? So do you do you feel that there's, like, a challenge that how to to make that small talk with hotel staff? Like, do they feel that difficult, or do you help them with that? And is is it difficult different than your hotel?

Angelo VassalloI will say it's not a difficulty which is generated by younger or older generation. It's a difficulty that, of course, when you have a new person in front of you, sometimes according to your personality, you can react in a way in another way. But we try in order to avoid this, so we give as well some special training to our team member. One of the training that they have is to provide this kind of small talk about the weather. It's a training about the city itself. So when they start, they do a kind of tour of of the city with and especially in our case, we have really a good connection with the Randolph Museum. So we have a professor of them coming to us and doing this tour with us. So this give us well the possibility to start to speak a little bit more about the city and to give us well some kind of feedback or information to the guests, are information that they need for traveling around Amsterdam. So this help as well the young generation, but the older one as well, to start, I would say, meaningful conversation with the guests. Then as I said before, it comes with the personality of the team member. I can tell you, currently, I have a really two young motivated training at the front office. One is Sun, and one is Maximilian.

Angelo VassalloThey are really good in how they approach the guest. And especially since we have really an international team, we have in our team, we have more than 20 nationalities. It's good to see them as well as pressing at the best when they have guests coming from their own country or speaking the same language. Maximilian is, for example, is a German speaker. And, of course, we had this weekend, we have some, I would say, elderly German guests. And the German guests, they were amazing amazing by the fact that Maximilian was speaking German. This is helping as well the the possibility to build the bridge that I was speaking before. So, again, for me, it's not question of generation. It's more question of how many tool you give to your team member to build that connection with the guests. And, of course, then it's it's coming then automatically and naturally. They need just to train, and then guest after guest is coming really, really easy.

the Future of HospitalityI totally agree that the more tools you give them, they have to know the city because they are also guests of the city. Right? Most of them don't know Amsterdam like like locals do. So that's totally true. And my next question is in regards to your your past experience. I saw that you come from an F and B background. Did it also shape the way that you that you manage? Because I know that most of, not most, but a lot of general managers come from operations and not from F and B. So does it make a difference coming from an F and B background or not really?

Angelo VassalloWell, the the the big difference is maybe for my F and B manager because I will make the airline a little bit more difficult because I'm coming from the field. Yeah. No. But jokes apart, I mean, I really love to work in FMB, and I think that it's one of the best differentiator that you can have in your town. I mean, in terms of rooms, of course, you can have a nice room. You can have a nice product when it comes to the lobby. But if you want to have a kind of cherry on the cake, this will be the FMB experience. If you're able to, of course, to create a meaningful FMB experience, you will as well assure that you have a complete experience of the guests, and you can even increase your because you are offering a better experience to your guests. And, of course, personally, you shift my life as well professionally because FMB is a kind of world which is a little bit more dynamic.

Angelo VassalloYou are facing as well employee with different educational background. And for me, I I always make this example. It comes well to the way that you communicate to the team. I remember one case when I was working in Barcelona as a FMB director. At that time, we were doing catering in large scale. We were the official catering of the Formula one. And sometimes, of course, you work with the employee which are not who are not so specialized as you do every day. So during the briefing at that time, we were in the bus because we were reaching the location by bus. I explained to everybody that at lunchtime, when we needed to fill the shaving dish with water, we should put inside the two finger of water.

Angelo VassalloAnd when the time came for for the lunch, I was called by one of the FMB supervise who are saying, we have a problem on that space because the water was leaking from the cement dish. And I went there and say, guys, of this scam. I said, yeah. We put two finger of water. I said, but it's too much water. And they said, yeah. We put two fingers as you say. Put two in vertical. And, of course, the water the water was, let's say, going over the top of the cement dish, and there was many other time two fingers. Of course, no reason, though. And then I say, this is for me was a kind of, like, the sample that I always am speaking about.

Angelo VassalloTry always to communicate in a way that the people in front of you can understand. Use the language of that people, especially when it comes to FMB. As I said before, you have a different educational background, so you need to keep it really simple to make sure that everybody is getting the message. Of course, you will not keep it very simple when you're speaking with your management team because then you know that there there would be some background information already, but always have a look to the room, who's inside the room, and adjust your pace, adjust your language, adjust as well the way that you communicate with the people that are in front of you. So back to your question, I think that that that one is the big lesson about my FMB experience. Always have a look who's in the room no matter if it's employee, guests, or or suppliers, or whoever. Just make sure that your communication style is adapting from situation to situation.

the Future of HospitalityIt's an amazing skill that you have that that you can level with all kinds of people because that's the dynamic part of F and B, I guess, that you that that that's what you've learned. Right? Did. Did. Nice. And I saw that you let the repositioning of the hotel restaurants. Can you explain a little bit more about that? Like, what what was your vision behind it, and what did you guys do at TiVoli?

Angelo VassalloWell, we had already a restaurant, and it was really a nice menu, but we saw that the the flow of guests that we had at the time was not really what we were expecting. So we tried, and we are still in that phase indeed that and I have to say that the F and B team is really motivated in this phase of change. So the idea behind was to make them a little bit different when it comes to the storytelling. Of course, you know, in Amsterdam, we have more than 4,000 restaurant in the city. So it's difficult to to be in that competitive arena. And the the hotel itself has a a really huge connection with Rembrandt, the most famous painter of of The Netherlands.

Angelo VassalloSo we said, okay. Since we have this connection in Utah, let's make the same connection with with with the restaurant. And the kitchen was able to develop a menu, which is practically doing a parallel between the painting technique of Rembrandt and the kitchen technique. Why we were doing this? Because we said, we need to give to the marketing team something that they can sell easily and that is not easily duplicable from other restaurant in the city. So the was indeed the the, I will say, the the main or the base of the menu itself. So and this is what I'm doing as well when I'm working in other restaurant in another hotel. I always tend to develop the concept according to the oh, is this will be for the marketing team to place in the market. If I'm giving them something that everyone else can sell and there's no really, I would say, kind of unique selling point, then for them, it will be really difficult for creating advertising material or any communication campaign without having something special. So this is what we do usually in the repositioning in in terms of of restaurant, and then you need to stay on top of it. So this is a kind of baby. When you do a new menu, when you do a new restaurant, or you just change the concept of it, you need to work together with the new baby. Otherwise, it will fall down each each step that it's making, and maybe it's not growing as you wish. So it's kind of, let's say, doing review meeting, checking the numbers, checking the guest review, readjust, and take especially at the beginning, take every feedback really with a critical line but open to it because then this one can make really the difference. And then it's readjusting, readjusting, readjusting, but at the same time, keeping the consistency. Because if you're not consistent in what you're doing, the fourth of your marketing team will be practically reduced to zero because, of course, they're communicating something. And when the guest is coming to the restaurant, they find something different. Yeah. And did you see, like, when when did it was the when did you launch the new concept?

Angelo VassalloWe launched it practically in October 2024, and we are seeing already the first result. I mean, terms, of course, of of revenue, there is a good jump if compared to to to the last performance, but we see as well in in the review that we are receiving. If you look now the last three months of review in the booking system that we are using for Treson, you will see that the guy out there doing a really good job. I mean, I don't see any score which is below nine or 10, so it's just really really valuable.

the Future of HospitalityThat's amazing. I love your your view that you have that you, first of all, look at you don't look at the design first and the dishes. You first all look at the USP, the unique selling point of the of the hotel and the restaurant, and then you then you start, you know, building the rest because you first have to think how are you going to commercialize this. Otherwise, you have great dishes, but you cannot commercialize it. You cannot be unique. Then it's harder to to do it afterwards. So I guess you started with that, right, with, like, the Rembrandt uniqueness, and then you you made it happen. That's amazing.

the Future of HospitalityMakes me kind of curious to go and and see how it looks like in TiVolgi. So Looking forward to welcoming you. Don't worry. Thanks. Thanks. So my my next question is, what's your personal leadership philosophy? You talked a little bit about how you do things. What can you maybe elaborate a little bit more about about this one? Because I feel a lot of things about you. You have great energy, and I I think that your energy is important for you. But I want to hear your side of the story. Like, what is your leadership philosophy?

Angelo VassalloWell, first of all, I think that I you go in the position, more your position is of supporting. K? And for me, it's always the basis supporting your team. Supporting your team for me means giving them their resources that so that they can help them to make a good job in front of their guests. Resources for me means, of course, tools. It can be from IT. It can be from tools that they need to work in the kitchen. They can be as well training or as well, of course, colleagues. Okay? So everything that they need to perform properly their job. And this is kind of base because once that you have that one, then you can focus on build the whole castle on top of it.

Angelo VassalloAnd then I think that one of my characteristics when it comes to leadership, it's something that I learned as well when I was a kid and working with my father, working with my uncle. K? This sense of urgency. I remember that my my uncle was always saying, don't postpone to tomorrow what you can do today. K? Of course, you need to find your work life balance. It's not only to decide oh, your work life balance is this, but for me, it's if there's something that you can do today and needs to be done today, don't postpone it to tomorrow because tomorrow will come something else that you can improve, you can still build on.

Angelo VassalloAnd then for me, it's everything related to to trust. I mean, if I can trust you, if I can work with you, then we can be faster in what we need to do. Then and I I really like the the book of Stephen Covey on this, which is a spirit of trust when he he's saying that it's kind the trust is a kind of bank account. Okay? You can deposit money or you can withdraw money. Unfortunately, people remember more when you withdraw money from the bank account than when you deposit money there. So once that you withdraw money from the bank account, then sometimes the level of trust is getting down, and this is making them the whole relationship a little bit slower.

Angelo VassalloSo I prefer that we are really outspoken, that we really speak on the face what needs to be spoken, at least so that that's disaligned, and then we can build on top of it. So it's part as well of my leadership style. And then what I like as well, there's always and this is what I'm speaking daily with my my trainee, my management assistant trainee. I'm saying, Martha always think with your brain. K? When you are facing a problem, first of all, use your brain, then use Churchill, use Google, and last, that is also will be me. So then come to me and make the question. Not because I don't want to help you. I mean, of course, I'm there to help you and to assist the the growth of these people, but I want the people on my team to be independent to think with their brain. Because, of course, it's easier when somebody else is giving the solution, but it will be, in my opinion, less effective than that solution was found by yourself.

the Future of HospitalityTotally agree with it. Especially nowadays with JGPT, the brain is kind of second we have our brain as CHED GPT, and we almost do not think anymore. So I totally agree that that's important to use. That's why we have it. And can you share a moment, a guest moment at TiVoli that, like, truly state state with you, like, something exceptional that you think, like, this is what we do and why we do it? Like, a story about a guest experience?

Angelo VassalloSure. Look. Really, I was saying this before. Really proud of my team and what they are doing in terms of guest experience. I mean, we just closed the March with the overall service score of 98% over 100. So I'm really proud of what what they are doing. And, of course, there are a lot of experience that we have done with guests. But I will tell you once, which is which is started not with the right fit and then ended up with a nice experience. Okay? You know, in big city like Amsterdam or Barcelona or Madrid or whatever you want to call them, the experience gets started wrong before arriving to the town. Okay? So in Amsterdam, we had the we had the two guests coming from US, and they got the one of the suitcase stolen on the way to the town. Okay?

Angelo VassalloOf course, they were disappointed about the experience, but they wanted as well to enjoy Amsterdam. They were here just for three days. They don't want to go from police station to police station to make a report out of it. So what we did, we called the police station by ourself, and they told us, no. You are not the victim of the crime. You cannot submit the claim for the guests. I say, yeah. But the guests, we are say they're staying here for three nights. They don't want me to spend time with you guys at the police station waiting for the report and so on. So we called our legal department. They they told us, actually, in The Netherlands, you can submit the client the claim as well on behalf of the guest because you are witnessing it. So we went to the to the the police station, the the the front office manager and say, guys, this is the article of the law that we can use, and, actually, we want to submit the claim on behalf of the guest.

Angelo VassalloAnd then we did. Of course, the duty guest never went back, but the guest appreciated really the time that we spent for them at the police station so that they can focus in exploring the city. And we are still in contact with them. They are really nice people. And this which could usually, it's a kind of bad review in Internet, which was not really about about the hotel. It was about the the experience in Amsterdam turn out to in a kind of this creating the relationship with the guests and keeping the relationship as well after the guests stay with us. And they will remember us as the one who really care about them even if this was nothing to do with us as a hotel. But in on that moment, we are practically representing Amsterdam, so we want to represent Amsterdam in a perfect way and say, okay. You are guests of Amsterdam, and therefore, we take care of you. And this is what we did in this case. So, therefore, this experience is sad with me. And once again, kudos to to Amber, our front office manager in this case, because she took really care and the ownership of that fact. And, again, it was an experience which sucked with the the wrong fit, but at the end, we get, I'm sure, a really loyal guest for the future. Well, I hope they had a nice time.

Angelo VassalloThey did. They they did enjoy it. It was just the first, I would say, this five minutes of, craziness. But then afterward, they really enjoyed the three nice day in Amsterdam. They really love Amsterdam. They really love the hotel. We have a nice feedback from them as well in writing. So, I mean, it's like, everything can start with the wrong fit, but at the end of the day, it's how you are able to turn this in a in a memorable moment as we said before. Yeah. Nice. Very nice story. I I love that one.

the Future of HospitalityAnd I I totally agree that sometimes when you as a guest come to a hotel, you feel that they are all suitable for you, but it's just kind of because you are a guest of the hotel, it's nothing special, not not that extra step. But when they are even a guest when they're not a guest, they feel the same feeling that you still care about them because there's a difference between really caring about somebody and, you know, just showing that you care because they are a guest of the hotel. And I guess that's what that they felt, right, that they that you really care about them no matter if they are a guest at the hotel or not.

Angelo VassalloIndeed. I mean, doesn't matter if the guest is coming just for passing by or if he's staying in hotel or having dinner with us. Everyone stepping in in the hotel is for us a kind of opportunity of advertisement. Advertisement of showing the level of hospitality that we want to give to each one entering to the town. So at the end of the day, it's an opportunity that we want to use every opportunity.

the Future of HospitalityNice. Nice. Nice vision. One of my last questions, as we call this podcast, the future hospitality, so you probably know what I'm going to ask. Like, how how do you look at the future hospitality? Of course, there's a lot of things coming up, technology. I know that the most people say that I interview that humans will make the difference. I also believe it, but how do you look at the future of hospitality? What do you think will will be the biggest change in the coming five years, for example?

Angelo VassalloYeah. The the then you will be disappointed then because you will get from this side the same reply that you got as well in the past. No. Jokes apart. I mean, of course, hospital has been there since, really, and centuries. And, of course, the base is always the same, what I was saying before, is the the human aspect behind it. Of course, processes are changing, I mean, in in different way. The it goes from how we interact with the guest, how fast we can communicate with the guest. For example, for giving, I will say, a kind of silly example in the past when a guest was checking in and the room was not ready, you will give him a call. Today, you will send him a WhatsApp, and then I guess as much of a checking that WhatsApp doesn't need to reply to to to the phone. So we have a a lot of process which can be, I will say, make faster with the technology.

Angelo VassalloSo I suppose that in the in the future, it will be the same, and the individual will be even better when it comes to customer relationship management because then you are able to understand a little bit more of the guest background and the guest as well wishes before the day is coming or she's coming to the town. And this is what we were speaking before when we we said about building this this connection with the guest. But, of course, this is going as well. The revenue management, we have different tool. This comes from to food and beverage where, of course, you can optimize some process. You can even then make the ordering process for the guests faster and so on. But, again, back to your question, will say that I will agree with the 99% of your previous guests and say, this industry is made, let's say, at the beginning from people, for people.

Angelo VassalloSo no matter if your check-in is made by a robot or via the receptionist, if there's one person behind that process who care about the guests, then there would be a kind of hospitality experience. Because at the end of the day, it's hospitality at the end of the day. If there is somebody who's just thinking about the money, and believe me, I am really focused in financials, I know what we are speaking about. But at end of the day, in this world, the long term profitability of this the the hospitality world is made by caring about who is staying your hotels and who is making debt safe from Minabo, which is, of course, your employee. So if you care about this prospect, then doesn't matter if it's five years, ten year, fifteen years from now, in my opinion, will be the same.

the Future of HospitalityNice. Nice one. So, yeah, that's a good one. I I totally agree with you, and same as all the guests. I'll say the same people will make the difference, and technology will enhance stuff to have more time for the people because that's what it's all about. I hope that it keeps it this way because we never know. In the future, maybe twenty years, you know, maybe generations will change, and they don't want to have any people contact, but we'll see. We'll see. I'm kind of curious about it. Is there something else, Andrew, that you say? Like, I I want to say this. I want to share this. It can be anything. Can be, I don't know, even without hospitality related stuff. Is there anything else you want to share for the listeners?

Angelo VassalloOkay. Just the one last point I will say, and this is right as well what you said about having conduct with people. You know that in the hospitality industry, especially in the past year, we had some challenges in finding new generation working for the hospitality. Okay? Now I was, certainly a few weeks ago in in Switzerland for a career first, And, it was really motivating to see that there are still 100 and hundreds of people willing to work in this industry. So, of course, if you want to have them in your team, you need to motivate them as you need to motivate them in another industry as well. But I can tell you that people like to travel.

Angelo VassalloPeople like to stay in contact with other people. And despite what we have, let's say, seen in the last years in terms of people working or not in this without industry, I'm sure that there are still a lot of people passionate like me that they want to to give this hospitality sense to other people as well. 100%.

the Future of Hospitality100%. The last few years were too difficult with COVID and everything. I'm sure that people, persons will always have a feeling for for hospitality. Right? So, Angelo, we're kind of out of time. I I really thank you, not only for your time and and knowledge, but also for your energy because I can feel the hospitality from from The Netherlands to to my place here. So, really, thank you for your time. It was a pleasure to to have you as our guest.

Angelo VassalloIt was my pleasure. Thank you for your time once again.