Von der Krise zum Erfolg in der Hospitality

the Future of HospitalityNo. No. No. No. I hear I hear a lot of stories of general managers how they dealt with with the the the the post COVID. It's it it and it's still, they still feel it. They still see it. Do you have it? I wanna touch it a little bit. Do you still feel the after effects of COVID? Did it change your way of work or how you approach, your customers, your guests, or maybe your your staff?

Sjoerd SybesmaNo. It doesn't for me. And and and the reason why is we are the first Melia family hotel in The Netherlands. Now Melia is worldwide approximately 400 hotels. They are the largest hotel chain of Spain, and actually the largest employer of Spain. It's a family hotel chain. About 58% of the stock is owned by the family, and 42 is actually with, with the Spanish, stock exchange market. So it's a family business, and and we started, obviously, this big hotel on the Zaitos in Amsterdam in COVID time. So the expectations after COVID were were zero. I mean, you know, I mean, the new normal was everybody stays at home.

Sjoerd SybesmaYou know, the hotel scarcity in Amsterdam is over because nobody's gonna stay there anymore. You know? So, we we were like, oh my god. You know? If we reach a 20% occupancy, we're lucky. Well, I must say, you know, 2022 when we actually did open I mean, with Easter, we had 80% occupancy. I did not know how to manage it because we didn't have people. 2023 was was exceeding all expectations, including feasibility studies done prior, and 2024 was even better. So Oh my god. That's amazing. Yes. I must say that I am, I'm very proud of the the team. Team. I'm very proud of the how we how we managed this. We ended last year with an NPS score of over 71%, which is fully credit to the team. 100%.

the Future of HospitalityWonderful. So, yeah, you have a good team, and but you're the leader of the team. What makes your leadership outstanding or different from others, you think?

Sjoerd SybesmaWell, I I always say I I I I was told by the best, which is Roberto Payer. You know, he was my very first general manager. I mean Who was that? I didn't hear the name. Roberto Payer, The chicken or manager from, from Hilton Amsterdam at the time. I mean, he was in the hospitality industry years, and he's an icon. And, of course, at that time so I'm talking about, the nineties, time was different. So to answer your question, the general manager from at the time that you are a general manager, which is a position that is people look up to, not anymore. You know, you're part of the team. You you work with the team. You do what.

Sjoerd SybesmaYou're a coach. You're a trainer, and you're a leader, and the three of them combined. And not just a leader, that I'm as much as a coach, I'm as much as a trainer, or at times, I'm much as a learner. You know? They teach me things too. The generation the new generation teaches me how I need to deal with them. I cannot expect they change because I'm an oldie. No. I need a chance to understand them.

the Future of HospitalityAnd that is That's amazing. I like that. I heard that before. And and and could you maybe name one or two things that you think, hey. That's the young generation that's typical. The younger generation, that's what I learned from them.

Sjoerd SybesmaOh, they, knock on your door if it is not open. They walk in, they sit down, and they say, listen, I wanna talk to you about things you do or the hotel does, and I don't agree with it. It's like, okay. That's cool. Tell me what. You know, I mean, you can be offended. I mean, you can be offended. And you can say, well, who do you think you are? You know, go and work, go and learn, for the next twenty five years and then come back. You know? Or you can say, okay. Tell me. Tell me. What do you think that that and and and and and why do you think this? And be open to it. Don't play a game. You know? They're not stupid. Don't play a game. It's okay. I let them talk.

Sjoerd SybesmaAnd, and then when they finish, then life goes on. But listen to them, and and sometimes, you know, they have ideas with are simply not feasible, and and then you talk about it. But sometimes you say, okay. Fair points. Fair points. You know, you you you mentioned something something that we we did not wear the way we, what was the best way, and let's let's adjust it. So, I mean, how am I different? You know, they they they give me knowledge, and and they and they make the NPS score that we reached last year is not because I'm a good or bad general manager. That has nothing to do with it. It is because the team is enjoying themselves and feels important, and that's why our NPS score is good and not because I'm a general manager with 20 over twenty years experience.

the Future of HospitalityNo. I get it. I get it. But it's indeed, very different from, well, ten years ago, twenty years ago. I mean, I worked in hospitality myself, and you just had to do the job. And I don't even remember my opinion counted, so that's different nowadays.

Sjoerd SybesmaNo. Absolutely. Absolutely. And and yeah. I mean I mean, if if if you don't go along with that, then then you won't succeed, in my opinion. You simply will not succeed anymore.

the Future of HospitalityGood. I understand that. Going back to, how you started, you went to the hotel school you mentioned, in The Hague. I know the hotel school very well. And what made you decide? Because when we started at the beginning, what made you decide to go to the hotel school?

Sjoerd SybesmaThat is a Story. That's a good story. Ben, I was actually living in, in Spain where I did my, IGCSEs or o levels, the English system because I happen to live in Spain. But my parents happen to live in Spain, and I did high school there. When I had to do the a level, I needed to go to The UK because my Spanish school was too small to actually feature a levels. So the a levels, it's equivalent to the Dutch VWO. I went to, to in Durham, And when I was there, I needed to choose what to do. I I I want to study medicine. So I did I enrolled myself for the voting system, had a number of fixtures, and I actually, got the right number, and I could enroll in a medicine study.

Sjoerd SybesmaSo I was like, well, that's great. You know? I'm lucky. I, I passed the the number sixes. So, and then my family, my father, my mother, well, mostly my father, and some other people said, sure. You don't like studying. You don't like studying. Why on earth are you going to medical school? You know, the first four years, the only thing you do is books, books, books, books, books, nothing else. Mhmm. And I was like, yeah. Well, you know and and and then and then, you know, they they they talked into they didn't talk into me. They just put a mirror in front of me that the hospitality is far more into my league than than than medicine.

Sjoerd SybesmaSo I also enrolled decided to enroll at a hotel school, and I had my selection day as they do now. In fact, I'm a selector at the moment from the hotel school, so still very much involved. But at the time, I, I did my own selection. And, and I passed. And, yes, and then I made the decision to, to go to the hotel school, which fit me as a person far better than, the medical school would have done. Right.

the Future of HospitalityWonderful. So after that, you, what was your first, job?

Sjoerd SybesmaFor a new tip at the ABN AMRO Bank.

the Future of HospitalityAh, really?

Sjoerd SybesmaYeah. One? Where? Where was that? Yes. Well, you know, when I don't know if that is still the case, but at the time I was at the hotel school, hotellos, as we call, we talk about guests. We don't talk about clients. Clients is a squaring word. You know? We have guests. And at that time and, again, I don't know if that's still the case. I don't know. But at that time, the AB and AMRO banks, ING banks, bank, and, mean, all the bankers, they they wanted hoteliers because we think about guests. We don't think about clients. And and and the word guest and the approach towards a guest is so much different than the word client or the approach towards a client. Now we have a client, and the client arrives at the building one minute past five. At 05:00, you're closed. They're sorry. We closed.

Sjoerd SybesmaIf you have a guest, and they arrive one minute past five, you say, of course, we open. That's the difference. So that approach would, did stimulate the bank the banking world to go to hotel schools and try to, convince hotellos to to join the bank. And I fell for it too. At that time, the arena, the Johann Keiv Arena, at that time, it was called the Amsterdam Arena, was just open, so we were invited. We were at lunch on the on the on on the on the soccer pitch in the middle. At that time, it was the glory time of Ajax, of course. So it was like, wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. I wanna work there. So I got the job offer that I started the commercial traineeship at the end of the bank.

Sjoerd SybesmaAnd after a year, I realized, nope. It's not for me. I I started hotel school. I wanna work in a hotel. So, I changed after a year. I went to, Hilton. I started as an, a bar supervisor in the half moon lounge at, at the Amsterdam Hilton, followed by a night reception, night manager, followed by a day reception, day supervisor.

the Future of HospitalityAnd then now I'm the general manager. All the positions that brought you to this position. And, it's an amazing story. I worked at ABN AMRO myself, so I recognize what you what you just said. And I remember they called me a Swiss army knife. Coming from the hospitality industry and, started to work as a banker at ABN AMRO, and I there, I found out there were more people from the hospitality industry and the hotel school. And indeed, what you said, they love people from the hotel school and that stability industry because of their helicopter view, the way of thinking, how how we approach our guests. Because indeed, I hate the word client. It's for me, it's always a guest.

the Future of HospitalityAnd, and that never changed. So I recognize. I can resonate with your story. Going back to your, to your hotel, I'm I'm I'm curious to learn, because that's the thing that I see with with other hotels is how you manage your food and beverage, department. Is that, is that outsourced? Do you do everything yourself?

Sjoerd SybesmaWell, it is outsourced, but that has a story. You know, when we we we we are in a 20 high building in, in the Zaertas, in Amsterdam, the vibrant part of the Zaertas, and, we have a Skybar. Now when we when we actually opened the hotel, it was still, you know, the the drive the the the the the guidelines from the government is work from home, but at one stage, we were allowed to go to bars or restaurants. We only were allowed to sit down. We were not allowed to stand up. So we actually opened our Skybar. And and we did it together visiting a visiting PR partner, and we were fly. We had a flying start. We were it was a gray bar. It's 60 meters high. It's got a beautiful view. It's got a a ceiling to bottom windows. Got a beautiful view over the Zaedos, over Amsterdam. You see Schiphol at certain stages, and it it was was great. We really had a flying start. It became popular.

Sjoerd SybesmaInstagram was flying, and then there was another lockdown. So we were in a ramp up period, but we were not enough in a ramp up period that we could already lift on on our reputation because we didn't have any reputation because we just started, and now we had a lockdown. So bang. It all stopped. We had to let go of everybody we had hired. Everything we set up was gone. And then we opened up again because we were allowed to open up again, and we tried to start up again, but we had to start from scratch. So we did, and then we had to close again.

Sjoerd SybesmaSo this was like and then, again, you have a Skybar. You know? You don't have as always respect for any bar in Amsterdam, but this is a Skybar. You know? A Skybar has something magic. Has something romantic. It has something wow. You know? They have few Skybars in Amsterdam, and all of them have something wow. So so at one stage, when we actually reached finally q two twenty twenty two when when all of us lost country in Europe that actually was released from the restrictions, the hotel filled up like crazy. And we had the Skybar that we want to be you know, to run like a great place, but we simply could not do both. We had to focus on the hotel, focus on the rooms, focus on getting the bedrooms filled.

Sjoerd SybesmaAnd the Skybar was actually just, with all respect, with just a restaurant that we were coping and and adding next to it, and it did not provide the the potential it had. You know? It was it was a great bar, but it wasn't it wasn't wow. We were playing the Jupiter League, you know, the the the Ace of the Vizi, the Coke company on the Vizi. And then we talked to the headquarters for Maria. I said, listen. What are we doing? Are we gonna continue playing second league, or do we wanna play champions league? You wanna play champions league. There's no doubt. Okay, guys. But if you wanna play champions league, you have to find a partner that wants to invest in the Champions League and wants to buy the players that can play Champions League and wants to have the knowledge that can that and you have to yeah. You have to know what is your capacity. I I'm I'm 51 years old. I'm not standing there in the big cocktail bars in Amsterdam anymore. I'm not in the scene anymore that I know what's the best. I simply, you have to know what are what, you know, what are your what are your capabilities.

Sjoerd SybesmaSo I said, I cannot play Champions League in this bar. I can play Champions Lock in the hotel. I cannot do it in a bar. So we find a partner, and, and the partner did want to play champions league. Now and the long story short, they took over, Cielo, which was called when we had it. They changed it into Asta La Vista. They made it wow, And the potential about what they've done so far is amazing. You know, they rebuilt it. I think there was was over €500,000 refurbishment and and changed it. Right? Yeah. And it is it is you know, I just actually before our podcast started, I had a tour with a couple of, a couple of guests that wanted to see it, and and it's amazing. You get there, it's it's it's super wow. And and they are playing Champions League.

Sjoerd SybesmaSo that's why we decided to outsource.

the Future of HospitalitySo that's a a good corp collaboration, the hotel and the company that you work with. What's the company that you work with? You can name it. Well, the Unique Comsets.

Sjoerd SybesmaThey they are famous for their pescan restaurants.

the Future of HospitalityOh, Pesca. Oh, I know that. Really? Great. I need to come visit Saotos. It's in you say it's in the, in in the,

Sjoerd Sybesmanot in the business district. Right? No. It is. I mean, I mean, we are we are right in between the atrium and the WTC center. Oh, right. That loop part. Yep. Yes. It used to be the Twin Towers. It used to be auction, no bell, and the Stibetor. It were entirely entirely stripped. Only the skeleton, remained, and then they rebuild it as, one side, an office building, and on the other side, a hotel. And and the funny thing with the office building is that that, of course, the office building of offers food and beverage facilities, reception facilities. So I spoke to the owners of both buildings, which is Commerz Real, I said, listen. Why don't we bring the the the inside med inside by media, expertise service into your office building? It's always but don't don't have those hired, agencies sitting there, you know, doing their job, but have hospitality people sitting there. So the receptionist is part of my reception team. The F and B is part of Unique Concepts team. You know? So we we have the best of both worlds in, in the office building.

the Future of HospitalityAh, it sounds like to me that you made the most you you make the most of one another by, lifting and pushing each other upwards.

Sjoerd SybesmaYeah. Absolutely. And the owners are very pleased with that. You know, they you know, the facilities that we have in the hotel, you you you deliver your laundry at 09:00 in the morning. At 05:00, it's all ironed and and back. We give that service to the office building people. You know? They love it. If they want to have the food in the evening, they order in the morning, and they get it, they get it in the evening, take home. I mean, all rent a bike, and now they want to have a bicycle, we have it. All the hotel facilities is echoed next door.

the Future of HospitalityFantastic. About the hotel itself, you mentioned, the occupancy. I mean, it's it's three roofs, so, it's it's it's I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm happy to hear that. Now Amsterdam has always been a place that is well visited, and it's only getting busier and busier. So that is that is a thing a good thing, of course, but you still have to compete. So in you named the service. I can see that you're very excited, and you you you you resonate that to your people, to the people you work with. But what do people say? What do you get there? What is your feedback? I can I can imagine they come back? Do they come back? And why do they come back? Do you know that?

Sjoerd SybesmaWell, I mean, yes. They are coming back. But, of course, the loyalty program from Melia is not very known in The Netherlands. You know? We are the very first Melia family hotel in The Netherlands. So, like, KLM, you have, Fly Blue, and and and and and, of course, that works like like like crazy, of course, you know, to to get the people back because of the loyalty program. The ports they can score, the upgrades they get. And We have a similar program, of course, like any other large hotel chain, but we don't have that loyalty. So we need to build a loyalty. So we we need to convince the guests that usually stay elsewhere to stay with us. You know? So and they always try. You know? They give it a try, and and the first time you have them in, you need to convince them because you only get one chance for a first impression.

Sjoerd SybesmaIt's a cliche, but it's true. Your first impression is lasting. Hey. So so so that's what was our goal, to make sure that that that we're different, that we that we that we're different than than other hotels around us. Now how do we do this? We are a lifestyle hotel. You know? Lifestyle hotel. A lifestyle hotel. You know? We don't have a a uniform in the sense that it is like straight Colbert trousers, tie, nice white shirt. People actually have certain freedom in the guidelines we give them, and the same counts for the hairstyle and the same count but not only their appearance, but also the way they can approach the guests. You know, they they they they they More personal? Is that what I'm hearing? More friendly, more as a friend, you know? I mean, if they wanna talk about a guest about about their personal life, they can do that, you know? It's up to them, you know? If the guests want to hear it or vice versa, you know, it's fine. You know? I mean, it's it's it's literally a lifestyle.

Sjoerd SybesmaYou know? It is it it it's leisure and hard business in mind as we as we say, the jamilia. It is people people just be be themselves, and we have a lot of Spanish colleagues, a lot of Spanish, people working at the reception, and they really echo their warmth, strength, and warmth, Spanish hospitality. They reflect that. It is not a cliche. It is truth. You you feel it when you get in the hotel. It's the the Spanish hospitality.

the Future of HospitalityThat that the other's truth. It Okay. Now I need to come by. You sold it to me.

Sjoerd SybesmaVery good. Very good. But it's true. It's not just a an an an an commercial pitch that I'm doing. It is honestly But I can tell you're exciting. I would not have said the same thing about my previous hotel. I would have said other good things about my previous hotels I used to work in, but not this Finchy because this is unique. It really is unique for the hotel I I I work in.

the Future of HospitalityAmazing. So, talking about, giving the best service and making sure that your guests get exactly what they want, what they request, and to make them feel at home, a warm welcome, etcetera, etcetera. How do you see technology, helping you with that? Are you implementing or, using modern technology, advanced technology for your guest experiences?

Sjoerd SybesmaYes. We do. Believe that. I mean well, first of all, you know, answering reviews, of course, we can help this AI. You know? I there's not one answer on any review that I don't read, but I must be honest, you know, it's written by an AI tool, and then I check it, I change it, and I send it. You know? And I do this, you know, together with one colleague, but but with our guest experience manager. But, you know, I mean, at the moment, I'm close to 7,000 views on booking.com alone. So typing, you know, I don't have my typing diploma, so doing that all myself, and it's it's it's it's quite a challenge. So AI helps me, but with with with this with this restriction, nothing is sent out without reading it. You know? I don't want AI sending reviews or anything by that by that matter, but but without without having read it, and that counts for my whole stuff. But it helps. It very much helps. Now Yeah. I know that there are many companies that you have automated answers. You know? If they need a room service, they get an automated AI answer, do you, which which gives perfect, perfect service.

Sjoerd SybesmaWe are not that far yet. Will we will we do it? I don't know. When I when I was one of my previous hotels, there was the nonstop check-in. What meant that you could check-in your room, you got your key on your phone, you go pass by the reception. You didn't have to stop by the reception. Pass by the reception, go straight to your room, open the door. I thought it was the end of the reception. You know? I always was under the impression that when you have this feature, you know, you, you, say goodbye to two, three, four receptionists, and and and and you have one congeist slash receptionist that that gives some additional service.

Sjoerd SybesmaHow wrong was I? You know? I mean, we implemented that so many people wants to have the experience that the hotel and hospitality offers, which means a personal welcome,

the Future of Hospitalitya personal chat, a personal explanation about the room, a personal guidance. You know? This this this remains, and and and it That's what hospitality is about. It is about your personal, emotional connection. That's what I believe. That's and I think that's what what also is what what was my, my trigger, because I loved hospitality as a child. I was 14, 15 years old when I was waiting tables, and I love that con that interpersonal and emotional connection. That's why I move forward into hospitality. But I can also imagine no. I see that as myself, as a traveler, that when I check into a hotel, I want that smile. I want that personal connection. I want to feel welcome at home because I'm stepping into a building, but it's not about the building. And it it is about the people that provide the service and make me feel welcome. And what I'm hearing is that is exactly, the core of your business.

Sjoerd SybesmaIt's a core it's a core of the business, and and we should not, underestimate that. And, yes, I'm in favor of getting, as a additional service, the nonstop check-in. And in fact, we have a nonstop check-in and a nonstop checkout in this in in my current hotel. Only the only thing is that you have to collect your your room key, at the reception instead of getting it on your phone. But other than that, you'd we do feature it, which is great as an additional service. That's perfect. That's fine. That's great. But I am I am not on the impression that it can replace my reception in in the hotel that I am. You know, there are different hotels. You know? I mean, lower budget hotels. You know? We know of the familiar one hotels that used to be next to the French Highway that you actually got at the entrance door when you put your credit card against the machine. You got a QR code or whatever it was, and then you could enter your that is different. You know? That purpose was fully for quick get in, sleep, and go. Yeah. And and that was a great purpose. And and but the hotel I am in, the lifestyle in Amsterdam, the way I I I manage this hotel, it's nice to have the additional service on on on on a lot of technology. We should use it. We should take the max out of it. Don't think it can replace the the human the human touch.

the Future of HospitalityI love it. I've got, a final question for you, and that is, for people who want to, or considering the hospitality industry or working for a hotel, whether it's young people or people who come from another, career, what advice would you give them?

Sjoerd SybesmaWell, this is funny you ask because I as I mentioned already very briefly early in the beginning of our chat, I am a selector at hotels Cote d'Hague. You know, the alumni for hotels Cote d'Hague, it's very alum very important that they keep a close touch with the alumni. They work very hard to keep that touch with the alumni, and I'm one of them. And I'm actually, doing selection rounds with potential students. And then you speak to the new generation. They are some of them are 17. The very young ones are 17, 18 years old. Some of them are a little bit older, 20, 22 years old.

Sjoerd SybesmaAnd and you do revolves, do the role plays with them, you know, in order to see whether they are, whether we think, as as as all these, for this particular, for this particular, group of people, potential hotel school students. And but, I mean, what advice but but what what what advice would when I see those people, they they they they all of them compared when I did selection, compared to them, they still want they are in a business people serving people. You know? They still want that. You know? They don't say, I wanna work in a hotel, hospitality industry because I wanna become rich. I I I have not seen any of them. And I It's a calling. It's a calling. I have a son. I have a son, and and sometimes he says, you know, he's 11 years old. He said, oh, I want I want to become a lawyer because I wanna become rich.

Sjoerd SybesmaI said, that's fine. Yeah. That's good. That's great for you. Those people I see at selection days, I'm sure they have to they have to have to basically become rich or whatever. I don't know. I don't talk about this. But they wanna work in the hospitality. They wanna work for hotel. And if they if I introduce myself and I say, I started at this school, and I'm a general manager for three over the 28 building hotel on the Zuidos in Amsterdam. I did my Tunisia in Venezuela, when I was at the hotel school. I went to the ABN AMO brand. I tell a little bit my life story on on my career.

Sjoerd SybesmaYou see they listen, and they they they they want to hear the whole story. So my advice is, you know, high of select people, and when you when you know you wanna work in austerity business,

the Future of Hospitalityyou know where you want to work in it, go for it. Be very Feel it. You feel it. It makes you excited. You feel that heartbeat, and I know exactly what you mean. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Sjoerd SybesmaAnd I see it downstairs. I see the smiles. You know, we just hired another girl, and and and she started two weeks ago. I mean, she she's having fun. She's just simply having fun. It's amazing. And it's not because of her salary, because we all know what hospitality pays. It's not because of that. She has fun.

the Future of HospitalityAlice Nothing better than going to work with a happy face and coming from work with a happy face. And, it sounds like me that, you play in a more an important role in that, and that's good to hear. I have a fun. And when you have fun Fun as well. If you have your own fun, then you share fun. It's simple. I know. Oh my god. I love this conversation. Shur, thank you so much. You're welcome. Thank you for being on our podcast. And, well, maybe we'll speak to you soon, but I definitely will come to your hotel on the Zuiderz the next time when I'm in Amsterdam, and I will reach out to you. And, well, I'll see you then.

the Future of HospitalityThank you. It's a pleasure. Thank you for being on our podcast.