Warum Raoul die Hotels verließ, um ihre Geschichten zu erzählen

the Future of Hospitalitycan you tell me what is exactly... Can you give me a little more detail in what you do? For instance, for this or maybe you have another example I wanna do... Wanna wanna know for our listeners what is exactly that you offer? Why and why? And what make it so special? Yeah. I mean, so what I personally do within my team,

Raoul FokkeI am... As a head of creative, in jet... Like, in general form, I am responsible for the the creative output of the agency. In four... Sort of the four pillars that we do, we have digital marketing. So we, you know, we have digital partnerships with with most of our clients, which is long term, and we run online advertisements for them, basically. Right. Making sure that it's, you know, on brand, that there's a story around it, and that it, of course, converts. We mostly work with hotels, by the way. That's really our core lifestyle hotels that are mostly independent, that have a story, that have very enthusiastic owners behind it. We really... You know, that that's really where we... What makes us happy.

the Future of HospitalityI could feel the passion. I mean, this is this is an organic thing. Yeah. I feel it. And

Raoul Fokkeso that's really sort of our sweet spot. And we also started working with more lifestyle and hospitality affiliated brands as well, such as yachting brands or real estate brands that have long term or short term rentals, for example, and we built their brand. So... But to go back to your original question, so we have digital marketing. We have... We do websites as well, meaning from beginning to end. So we do the the the... Sort of the structure of the website, the design, the sort of the look and feel, and then as well as the development. So from a to z, we can take up your website, and after that, continue to take care of it. We do branding, which is what I'm mostly involved in, and it really excites me because I get to speak with some of the most interesting founders and owners, around Europe mostly.

Raoul FokkeAnd, like, last week, I was in Italy, and, there is this two founders, two brothers. They have a beautiful golf resort on Sicily, and they are in process of renovating it, and they also really want to rebrand the whole resort. Wow. So we flew over there and familiarized, of course, with the hotel, familiarized with the team, really sort of had very meaningful conversations to make sure that whatever brand we're developing, that it's, you know, that it really resonates with the founders and that their story is told. But also just we, you know, we, of course, also get to familiarize with the area, and it so happens to be a moment, for... Of the volcano that was on the island, Mount Etna.

Raoul FokkeIt was erupting. So we were there while it was erupting, and we saw it happening. And it was the wild... Like, was the wildest Oh my god. That was a wow moment. It was me amazing. And it's funny because that morning, I had no idea I would see a volcano erupt. You know? So that's such a a beautiful, I think, perk of what we do. We really sort of get to meet these interesting founders and translate their stories into beautiful brands. So that's what I do. And then last, we have PR as well. So public relations Yep. You know, which is really maintaining a certain reputation or uplifting a reputation of a brand.

Raoul FokkeSo, yeah, these are the the four pillars that we work in. I love it. Good story. Good story. So

the Future of Hospitalitylet us go back to where you started in your journey. So why, for for for one, why did you start a career in hospitality?

Raoul FokkeYeah. That's... I have a very vivid memory of why. That's an easy question. I actually was with my family on a family holiday. I was very young. I was, like, 10 or 11. And we were staying at this beautiful hotel resort having... Had the best time. And I remember being at breakfast with the family, and the general manager, you know, did his round. And he would, like, go to all the tables and, like, greet everyone and just be very, like, open and, know, pleasant and welcoming as general managers usually are. And he came at our table and, I don't know, he just left such an impression on me. And from that moment, I was like, I wanna have this guy his job. Like, that was my imprint, you know. And what age? You were 11, you said? I was 11. You knew it already. Right. I knew it already. I was like, alright. Interesting. That's what I wanna do. I wanna work... Have a job with work in a hotel and, you know, connect with people that way, basically. So I sort of... Really after that, that was sort of my focus. So I studied, went to hotel school, of course, and started working in hotels more on the commercial side of things. So I did revenue analysis first, you know, so that's like pricing of hotels and segmentation, sort of more the strategy side of it. And then I moved on to marketing and PR, which is what's something that was more closer to my heart and what I like to do. You know? So although I learned so much from being sort of on that analytical side, you know, understanding what strategy is from a hotel or a hotel group, and then moved on to sales. So I sort of did the whole spectrum of the commercial side when it comes to hotels.

Raoul FokkeWorked for various brands, bigger brands, independent hotels. I did a few openings of new hotels, you know, sort of of part of a task force, which is also sort of sort of such a fun thing to do because you are... You know, you... Generally, the hotel is not open yet. It's still being sort of build up, and you and the commercial team are in a separate building sort of preparing the whole opening. You know? And that's a very... A sort of high energy space to be in. And I just... So that was super fun. So I did that a couple of times. And then

the Future of Hospitalitydecided to stop working for hotels, started... Can we can we go one step back? Sure. What was the first hotel? Your... Because I wanna know your first experience. Oh, first hotel that I worked at.

Raoul FokkeOh, that was actually And what did you do? That was actually here in Amsterdam. Okay. Close to home. It was part of a group called Fairmont Raffles and Swiss Hotel. It's not a group. They have been taken over by our core right now. Okay. So it was a Canadian owned group, and that's where I worked on the reservations and revenue department. So that was my very, very first job. And that was also, of course, that your first job always leaves an imprint on you, I think. Still... Till today, I'm in touch with those people. You know, they become your friends because... So I really feel like I grew up there, you know, professionally. So that was I can resonate with that. I have the same kind of experience. Yep. Yep. So so that's that's my first hotel.

the Future of HospitalityThat was your first. So... And then after you said, okay. That was the hotels. What did you do after that?

Raoul FokkeSo, yeah, after the hotels, I... So for my last job, actually, with hotels, when I was doing sales mostly, I worked for what we then called luxury and lifestyle segment. So that means I would be traveling around the world to represent the hotel or the hotel group. And my clients would not be, obviously, not hotel guests, but they would be luxury travel advisers as we call them. So I would present and represent my hotel to those advisers. They would have a group of clients that they would book into my hotels. So I did that for a while and loved it because, you know, you get to see the world.

Raoul FokkeMhmm. You need to make connections, which is something that I've always wanted to do and represent a product that I love. You know? So... But after after, you know, all that traveling, I was like, alright. I need to slow down a little bit. I got... I also had some kids. So, you know, I need to be present. You're a family man. I'm a family man. So Mhmm. So sort of made a made a switch to less traveling and wanting to have more power over my own agenda. I think that was the moon... Sort of the main thing. Mhmm. And started my own business. So I became luxury travel adviser myself because I really found that in the region, in The Netherlands, there were literally two good advisers that were known. So I just saw a big opportunity there. Yeah. You know? And especially have You saw something missing. Sorry for interrupting. You saw something missing and something that

the Future of Hospitalityyou have a very... Well, where where you're passionate, we have passion for, and you saw that opening and you dove deep right into it. Right? Right into it, and

Raoul FokkeI was like, this is perfect. Know, this is so close to home. I have so much product knowledge, you know, of all these beautiful hotels around the world and connections. Like, I I know most of the GMs or sales representatives of most of the most luxurious hotels around the world. It's like, I need to do something with this. Yes. Of course. And so, yeah, that's when I sort of jumped into that new adventure and such a great decision. You know? I... It was, of course, a bit scary because you have kids. It was my first business, and it's like, alright. Am I... How am I going to do this? But it's just one of those things you just need to do it. You know? Do it. And then I think really literally from day one, it was a good... It was like a success. And it's... I really believe in, you know,

the Future of Hospitalitysort of that energy that you put out. You know, you really get it. You really get it. Can we can we go one step one step back? Because you dove into it. You started. What is exactly... How did you start? What did you do? What was the first thing you did? The first thing, actually, I have...

Raoul FokkeActually, it really came organic. Like, I had a friend that I made along the way. He has... He was actually agent... Marketing agency owner from New York, and he would also often come to Amsterdam. I met him at a conference, a marketing conference, and he would also stay in one of the hotels that I worked at back then. So we would sometimes... When he was staying in my hotel, I would have breakfast with him. So, you know, we built sort of a friendship over time. And I also shared my idea with him. Like, oh, you know, I'm thinking about starting my own business, and this is what I wanna do.

Raoul FokkeAnd, actually, he gave me the most simplest but best advice back then. Also, I'll never forget that. He just said, you know, Raul, you just do it, and everything is gonna be okay. Like like, just... That's it. Everything is gonna be okay, and it already is okay, actually. So sort of just that that trust, you know, that that Scary. It's super scary, but also but also trusting at the same time. That really helped me also to sort of just take the step. And he... Then, like, literally, the first day I called him, I was like, I did it. You know, like, quit my job, starting the business.

Raoul FokkeAnd he was like, great. I'm gonna be your first client then. So he... I booked him a beautiful trip to Hawaii with his family. He has two kids as well and beautiful long trip of, like, two weeks. So that was my first client and first project day one. And from there on, know, I, of course, have an existing network. So, you know, just talking around with my existing network. And, also, it's funny when... What I noticed when you start your own business, people really genuinely want to help you. So I also just loved to... Loved having experienced that, you know, that people really wanna help you and they they advise you to other friends. And so that... It really came organically.

Raoul FokkeSo that was that was the start of it.

the Future of HospitalityThat was the start of it. But what I also hear is that your network connecting with people Yeah. You have been connecting with people from the start. Yeah. From from the moment you left the hotel, so maybe you were at the hotel, you already started. Absolutely. And that network... I mean, I I mentioned this because nowadays, everything happens online, and there is less trade shows, etcetera, less up... Less opportunities for people to to meet in person. So that is that is indeed... You benefited from the time there was no Internet or... There was Internet, but not as... No social media as we have it today. Yeah. So every... Everything happened in person, and that network turned out to be very valuable for that step.

Raoul FokkeYeah. A 100%. And it's funny because, like, the... I think I'm organically very... Like, someone that networks and connects with people. I'm just generally, like, interested in people, their stories. So I think that just really helped because I never built my network with the intention of one day I'm gonna start a business and use the network or something. It's really from... Always has been and still is from a very genuine space. Like, oh, I'm just interested, know, you in getting to know you and wanting to hear your story, and and that's it. Mhmm. So I think that really helped to also... People trust... You know, it's also, like, I was doing something very personal. I was sort of taking care of people, their holidays most of the time, which is a very valuable time for a lot of people and a big investment as well.

Raoul FokkeSo there has to be a big trust as well. You know? So that's something that really only comes from a space of, I think, genuinity.

the Future of HospitalityYep. I agree. I agree. Well, I have some experience with that myself, So I know it's... Yeah. True. So I know exactly what you mean. And indeed, you you are given the trust of your of your clients, of your guests. I don't I don't know how you wanna call them, your clients. Yeah. And that... That's that that that's a big thing. So were you, if I may ask, referred by your clients to other Yeah. Potential client? Yeah? That's how it happened? How are you? Didn't have to do too much work to find your clients?

Raoul FokkeNo. I... Like, literally, all my clients were either from my own network or referrals. See. Really... Yeah. I cannot think of one client that came to my website and thought I'm gonna work with this guy because I don't think... Especially for what I was doing, it just wouldn't... It just doesn't work that way. You know? Mhmm. Again, because it's... There's such a big trust factor. So you need to have someone else sort of almost someone else's sort of stamp of approval before you start working with with someone to that capacity. So, yeah, it was mostly referral based. Yeah. All all my own.

the Future of HospitalityWhat is... If I... I can only imagine that you have some stories to tell. What is... When I ask you what is the the thing that you remember when I ask you about that period in your life Mhmm. What what is the story that pops up right away?

Raoul FokkeThe story that pops up right away is really actually one of my last trips that I did.

the Future of HospitalityOkay.

Raoul FokkePersonally. It wasn't even necessarily a client trip that I organized, but it was mostly for... You know, obviously, as a... As an adviser, you also get to try out experiences and get to travel before you advise them to your clients. Because as part of it as well, you wanna make sure that whatever you're advising that you have either experienced it yourself or that it's, you know, so... That someone else that you really trust has experienced it. I was part of a sort of a trusted network as well of people that are sort of... A... Advisers that are like minded, that have a certain level of of curation.

Raoul FokkeSo that really helped. But, personally, I was on a trip. I went to Patagonia, and that was actually a very beautiful trip. It was just it just... I will never forget that trip because it's... It was a very so, like, very... I don't wanna say lonely because that sounds negative, but it was... You were... I was alone a lot. So Right. You know, it's... Patagonia

the Future of Hospitalityis a sort of a deserted place. I know. Yeah. I mean, it's the southern point of of the whole... The most southern part of the whole world, almost.

Raoul FokkeReally? Yeah. That's where it ends. That's basically where it ends. So so you stay... I, like, stayed in my cabin alone. I did the excursions by myself, of course, with the with the tour guide. But I was sort of alone the whole time. And even at dinner, you know, everyone sits at their own table. And it was actually very difficult to make connections there with other people because, you know, you get Really? Yeah. You got How how... Why why why do you think that is? Because that's that's quite interesting for me. I mean I think a lot of people go there for a bit of solitude as well. I think that's sort of the purpose when you go on a trip like that.

Raoul FokkeSo, yeah, I think organically, it was just not... You don't just walk up to, like, another dining table and be like, hey. Hello. You know? So Nope. Because I just wouldn't I get you. Yeah. I understand. So... But that was fine. I just just so... I've I've seen so much at that point of my travel experiences, and that one just left such an imprint on me because it was a moment of being... Sort of having a lot of solitude, so having a lot of space and time to think and sort of rethink life, if you will. And so, yeah, that was actually... And that's maybe a bit personal, but I'm I'm gonna say it anyway. But that's... I also, at some point, came out.

the Future of HospitalityOh, that is what... Where are you... Okay. Yeah. And I was

Raoul Fokkewas on the trip alone. Of course, there has been a buildup before that for years of buildup, but that was really sort of a critical moment where I was like, I can't do this no more. I'm coming out. You know, when I return, I'm gonna tell my partner, okay. This is... You know, gonna have to rethink our situation. So Right. That is... I think that's why that trip left such an imprint on me. I think it's a beautiful... I look back at it as a beautiful time because it was really... It gave me space to properly think about life.

the Future of HospitalityIt made you come back to your self.

Raoul FokkeYeah. To my core. A 100%. Yes. So...

the Future of HospitalityYeah. Powerful. Very powerful. That's what's... Sorry? That's what pops up first. It's it's a beautiful story and a powerful story indeed. So about Trips, and you moved on now to the Orange Studio. So now you're working indoors. If I ask you what is the most what is the destination you want to go back to? You've been to many, many, many places. What is the destination that you think of, hey. That's the place that I wanna go back to.

Raoul FokkeI would probably wanna go back to... I traveled to Peru. Peru? And it was just a very... It was a beautiful trip because we got... You know, we flew on Lima, then continued to Cusco, and we have... It was with Belmont, a beautiful brand as well. Mhmm. And, you know, we had a beautiful train ride in one of their sort of luxury train carriages towards Machu Picchu and stayed there overnight and went back. I would have just just love to go back, do it all over again, but with more time. You know? So I can more deeply experience it all because it was just very quick, And I feel like I just touched the service of what you can experience there.

Raoul FokkeSo that's one place I would definitely wanna go back. And just the food alone, my god, that I've tasted. Really? I don't wanna try all the restaurants in Lima right now. So it's that's good.

the Future of HospitalityWell, you mentioned something that I always that always comes up when I travel. I see these these touring buses driving up to the Grand Canyon for instance, they make pictures and they go back into the bus and to the next next destination. And I've been traveling a lot myself and I early found out I need to stay and experience the destination instead of just having a look. It's like when you do that, when you tour around in buses, with all respect to people who want to do like seven days in Europe, I I I get that. You only have so much time. But... Yeah. Yeah. But but but isn't it so that experiencing it, staying longer, experiencing it, that leaves more of a imprint?

Raoul FokkeIf if I can. Yeah. What do you think? For sure. I think it's... I just think that if you... You know, I think you can do travel in, of course, various ways. And, personally, I really want to delve into generally want to delve into sort of the local culture, like, truly, and not just go to, like, hotspots or whatever, but really figure out what their culture is about. And you just simply cannot do that by visiting a highlight. You know? You need to wander around, maybe even get lost a little bit. And, yeah, sometimes even without a clear plan, you know, experience the destination. And I think those are my travel... Like, favorite travel memories when I get lost, really, in the destination and find something that is a surprise, you know, and therefore having to talk to the locals because you are, you know, somewhere where you're annoyed, where you're a bit lost. It's difficult not to get lost because we have Google Maps and all of that. So that's a bit difficult these days. But in the past, that was definitely my favorite thing to do, honestly.

the Future of HospitalityOkay. So you... As... After being a travel agent, that was the the... After being a travel agent, you you went to Patagonia. You just mentioned how you came to yourself. You came out, and you decided, I'm not gonna do this anymore. Yeah. And now you're working for the... With the Orange Studio. That is part of that decision. I just

Raoul FokkeYeah. Absolutely. Assume. Yeah. Yeah. It's... I mean, in all... Like, in openness, I think also at some point, I just... With the big change in my life, I also just needed a break. And being a travel adviser is very... You know, you're... You have to be on almost, like, all the time because your clients are traveling around the world. So I don't wanna be available. And with the big transition that I felt like I was going through, I needed a bit of a break. So that's really why I stopped being a travel adviser. I sort of some clients I referred to other agencies and just ended and took a good break.

Raoul FokkeAnd then at some point when I felt ready, which wasn't that long, super long, I just sort of looked back. You know, I was looking at life completely to a different lens clearly. So Mhmm. I was ultimately thinking career a little bit. And, you know, I'm also seeing it as an opportunity of, like, alright. We are... We have arrived here now. You have experience in certain areas. What's throughout all the years that you love most? You know? So I sort of really took time to figure that out. Like, one, in my recent years of working in hotels, for hotels, as a as a adviser, what were the key things that I loved? And it was really, yes, I still wanted to do something that was affiliated with hotels because hotels just have my heart. They will they will always they will always have it.

Raoul FokkeSo that was one thing. And then I wanted to make sure that it has... Had a higher dose of, I think, creativity, whatever I was doing next, and also still making sure that I could add value sort of to, you know, on a commercial and strategic to a strategic capacity. So it was very general, actually, but sort of these three things I kept always in front of me in my search, and then I got connected with Nicholas. In the past, I had worked with the agency actually when I worked for hotels, when I was repositioning a suite product for a hotel that I worked at, and we just started talking.

Raoul FokkeHe had a position open as head of creative. I had obviously no necessarily big experience of being, like, a art director or or or or whatsoever. I obviously have definitely marketing and creative experience from my background. So... But it was such a good conversation. There was so much trust. So I got got the position. And Nice. Two years later, happily still doing it. Wonderful. See so much opportunity still, you know, within the age of opportunities do you do you see? Yeah. I think there's so much more opportunity for us to work for, I think, brands that are closer to who we who we are and where we want to be. I think especially when it comes to building brands and rebranding as well as websites. I think we've done a lot of beautiful brands here close to home, like Pulitzer, the Dylan.

the Future of HospitalityNow You work with the Pulitzer and the Dylan in Amsterdam?

Raoul FokkeYeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

the Future of HospitalityWhat did you do for them, for instance? For Pulitzer,

Raoul Fokkewe now... Well, back years ago, we did their brand refresh, but that was already... That was before my time. We have built their website. We have a digital marketing partnership with them, which is ongoing. They are actually part of a bigger company called LOR Group, and they have Mhmm. Some hotel a hotel now in New York as well, for example, that we have just developed a website for Park Avenue Hotel, beautiful property that they've taken over. So that's that's a very... I think that's one of our longest or oldest partners, if you will. Pulitzer. The Dylan, we've also done sort of similar. We have done refresh of their identity website development as well and currently have a digital marketing partnership with them. So

the Future of HospitalityWonderful. Do you use

Raoul Fokkeadvanced technology like AI in your in your... Yeah? Across the board. I think everyone here in the agency uses AI all the time. I think it's almost something that you cannot... It's sort of un... Unthinkable not to use it. You know? Uh-huh. Yeah. It just really speeds up our work. I think, I I... If I speak for for sort of the creative department, we use it more often to help us brainstorm. I think it's a great tool to... If you give it the right input, I think that is key. Yeah. You know, giving it the meaningful and honest input, you'll get some great ideas back.

Raoul FokkeSo we use it to that capacity and... It's like a good sparring partner. Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, really is. And we never obviously take the ideas one to one over. It's just really sort of a... It helps us in our ideation process. So that's that's how we use it. We also use it for website design. You know, when we... One of the first phases that we go through is we call it wireframing. So that's when we set the structure and sort of the blueprint of a new website. Mhmm. And oftentimes, these blueprints, they're quite straightforward, especially since we work for a more... A lot of hotels that we know, you know, how a structure should look like in order to make sure it's a high converting website, in order to make sure that it's...

Raoul FokkeYou know, that this is a particular guest journey throughout the website. So, you know, to speed up that process, we often sort of set the foundation of the wireframing also through... With with the use of AI. And it just it just really saves us sometimes, like, half day of work.

the Future of HospitalitySo that is Yeah. It goes. Yeah. Yeah.

Raoul FokkeIt's it's it's a good good one for efficiency.

the Future of HospitalityAbsolutely. Wonderful. I like it. I have one last question for you, and that is the advice that you would give to people who are thinking about a career in the hospitality industry, coming from the hotel school or maybe not even ready for the school or maybe are in another career path right now, but maybe they wanna change. Do you have any advice for those people?

Raoul FokkeYeah. I think if you want to work in hotels, I think I'm a big advocate for, like, give... Bringing more awareness to what it actually entails to working in a hotel. Often people only think about the front end because that's what, you know, what they see. Yeah. They see the receptionist. They see the server in the restaurant, maybe the general manager greeting or the concierge. But there is such a big machine behind hotels. And there's such a a landscape of opportunity, I think, and also needed in our industry because I think a lot of people that work within the industry are still a bit traditional minded.

Raoul FokkeAnd I would love to have some more sort of some other ideas, you know, from other industries, especially on the back end side of the whole dot industry. So when it comes to sales, marketing, sort of the commercial side. So look into that, I would say. Plenty of opportunity.

the Future of HospitalityThere are. Yeah. Indeed. Plenty of opportunities. And what I what I hear from general managers, there's really... One of the pain points in hospitality industry is staff... Staffing right now. Yeah. That also your experience?

Raoul FokkeYeah. There is... We hear that absolutely from our clients, and we actually help them as well because I think that's, again, one of those things that I think a lot of people just don't realize the, you know, the... You know, they, again, they just think of the front end side of things. And so we really help hotels as well sometimes with employer branding, you know, to really tell their story better of how it is to work in their hotel, what they stand for as a property. Interesting. What the culture is, you know, internally. We tell stories. We help them tell stories of people that sometimes were... Have worked there for twenty years and why. You know? So that really appeals to, I think, especially the younger generation. They need to have a clear why of, you know, why they should work somewhere like this. They bought purpose directly. So we help we help with the employer branding as well. And, actually, we are launching a very interesting product.

Raoul FokkeI cannot Tell me about it. Tell me. I, unfortunately, cannot say much about it, but you'll... I'm sure you'll hear about it, actually, to help hotels exactly with that around the world. So that's

the Future of HospitalityBut you cannot say too much about it right now? I I unfortunately can't. But Okay. That's alright. We will... We'll just have to follow you. Right? Exactly.

Raoul FokkeExactly. Absolutely.

the Future of HospitalityRaul, thank you so much for being on our podcast. It was it was good to have you. Good to see you. Good to hear you and hearing some of your stories. And I will definitely be following the Orange Studio and you.

Raoul FokkeThank you, Aria. It's such a pleasure also talking to you and catching up. Thank you for for having me.

the Future of HospitalityYou're welcome. Thank you.